Race Timing Maps

[lawdog]

Hello,
I was wondering if any of you could post a copy of your XB12 racing timing maps. Either maps that you created yourself or from the race ecm. I am curious to see what differences there are between the factory and modified ignition timing maps. Here is a copy of my stock 2009 XB12R map.
Thanks
Brett



http://www.buellxb.com/buell_images/6230_20100514182627_L.jpg

[Jabaniz]

my buell race map timings from an 06 12xb i am actually running a little different from this now

http://www.buellxb.com/buell_images/3910_20100515064829_L.jpg

http://www.buellxb.com/buell_images/3910_20100515064813_L.jpg

[lawdog]

What changes did you make?

While I understand correct timing and MBT but the problem is without dyno time there is no way to accurately make timing adjustments. And to do it right, for each cell that takes alot of dyno time and $.

Anybody care to divulge their timing tuning or threw the bike up on a dyno and tuned the timing?

From comparing the 2006 XB12 race map to the 2009 XB12 stock map I see the race map is more aggressive in the 2000-3000 rpm range. The newer stock map also has more total advance at WOT and redline. Hmmm interesting. So in tuning theory I wonder if the 2000-3000 range was retarded to help emissions?

[lawdog]

Jaban can you post your 2006 stock map? I would like to compare the same year to year to eliminate any year differences.
Thanks
Brett

[Jabaniz]

im not sure i have my oringinal stock map anymore, i lost my harddrive, but you can get them from xopti's site, i ran the 07 racemap most for last year until eliminated the airbox, i think the 06 and 07 maps are the same from what i have seen now im logging and changing, i think i have it close, except in open loop and low rpm i have a bit of a stutter

[lawdog]

So here is a copy of the map I am about to upload. Added a little timing in the cruise range. Didn't touch much else. I will run it and go from there.


http://www.buellxb.com/buell_images/6230_20100516131354_L.jpg

[lawdog]

GatorBuell and I were instant messaging about timing and I thought it would be a good idea to share our conversation for the benefit of others.



GatorBuell: I slightly advanced my static timing but the 7 timing maps that I tried never felt better than the stock map. I tried a race map and 6 other maps that people have offered. From what i have read, the best way to map your timing is to put it on a dyno with someone who know what they are doing. I also tried copying the front map to the rear and copying the rear map to the front with poor results. Right now im running my stock maps until I can find something that works.Thanks Gator thats awesome. I am sure when they factory tuned the bikes they mapped out each cell for the MBT on a load dyno. The proper way to do it of course.

Problem is there are so many factors to consider. For example. I increased my AFR to 13.5 Cruise and 12.8 WOT so that means I should retard my timing as the burn rate is faster. I also installed exhaust and intake so my engine is more efficient (increased VE)and flame speed increases so in theory I should reduce my advance again.

But yet when you look at a Race ECM you notice the mid-range RPM had quite a bit more advance then stock. Why is that? So does the stock map reduce timing at cruise to lower NO2 and HO emissions? You would think when they tuned the motor they shot for MBT at each cell unless needed to for emissions. Or did they even go a little bit more conservative to increase engine life and reduce the risk of detonation?

So playing arm chair tuner without spending hundreds for load dyno time do I leave it stock and hope it balances out! From my standpoint I increased my cruise timing by 2 points as you can see from my modified timing map. I dont want to spend big $ for dyno time so I don't forsee making any big changes to my maps. Anybody want to donate dyno time and I will do the tuning and build a fabulous timing map! LOL

[jompas]

where do you guys upload your maps?? and where can i find maps for my 2009 xb12ss

[lawdog]

Well I use Ohio Sport Bike (http://www.ohiosportbike.com/phpBB3/index.php) and I created my own fuel maps based on my wideband tuning. Timing maps as you can see I kept pretty much stock while bumping up the timing a little in the cruise range. I also turned off my O2 sensors to run 13.5 AFR in cruise and turned off my exhaust valve since the bike runs better with it open.

As far as finding the maps it depends on what software you use. Most on here use ECMSpy (http://www.ecmspy.com/) which on their page you can download maps. Do a search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-us&q=site%3Abuellxb.com+tuning&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=) on here and read up the next few hours to learn!

[Stevenc150]

Flashing a Race Map to ALL Buells (http://www.buellxb.com/Buell-XB-Forum/Do-It-Yourself-Buell-Mods/Flashing-a-Race-Map-to-ALL-Buells-08-too) - This link should have the info you're looking for and includes you're '09 bike. Once you donload the proper programs, the maps can be found on ECMSpy.com.

[lawdog]

Ok so after playing around with the timing I am right back to where I started and I am using the stock map!

I found the stock map to be the best solution so please do not use the altered map I posted above. The map I posted above gave me an off idle hesistation and bog. Very annoying. I think the team at Buell knew what they were doing when they setup the stock timing maps on my 2009.

[Jabaniz]

i think your right lawdog, i think the 09 timing might be better for my 06 too :)

[xoptimizedrsx]

Use the ecmspy stuff the OSB stuff is not enough data to get what all you need done. just as steve stated.

I have a lot of data in this area.

use tuner pro and your xdf file for full detail of the ecm.

I dont do any work with the osb stuff... But, less is more. not more is more on all xb bikes... drop timing till you pull up the egt. then read the power on the SS dyno not a brake dynojet. you will see at steady state moving the timing the TQ goes up or down. set the timing to max tq. some (very fey lower rpm upper tps will ask for more most all rpms will be less to get max TQ. I giggle watching these timing threads. just like the O2 threads. Its a tool that works for you if you know how to set it.

you cant set it with OSB stuff. there fore you get a guess a tune even on a dyno. there is more to a tune than matching the fuel.(afr)

Thats another story.

lets say I get 62 MPG on my bike buy also on the same xb9 I have 100 peek hp and 84 TQ. Its all in how you set the ecm to utilize the O2's and your scalers. this is all outside the maps of timing and fuel. you need tunerpro to do this or the older version winols if you remember that side. Thats from the first ecmspy way back before most even know what ecmspy was. back when almost everything was done directly in the eeprom page out side of fuel maps. we have 4 tabs that was it. everything else was done in alternate programs then input into the eeprom as changes only.

Most people dont even relise it use to be like that before others copied how that was done on bikes calling it there new way. LOl to me.

anyone have the first ecmspy still. you remember if you do. it was on palm only not on PC. Thats when I started with ecmspy.

I have ran engines on the dyno till they were worn out. one even broke. I have worn tires out on the dyno doing test seeing what feature do to extream changes.


remember over all less is more. 16oo to 1900 egt!!!
I run aprox 1329 at wot and 1627 at 55 mph. wot temp is totally different. get timing correct you also kill the popping in the pipe 90%.

[lawdog]

The biggest obstacle is most people dont want to spend the money or dont have a brake dyno nearby. There are no Dynopacks or Dyno Dynamics around me. The closest Mustang is on the other side of the state. Obviously the best way is using a steady state dyno to hit your mbt but accesability makes it difficult. Then people like me get jealous at guys like you who have all the tools available to make a great timing map! So jealous!

So the second best option is to try a race ecm and when you aren't satisfied with that you go back to the stock timing map. Then you hit guys up that have used a ss dyno to tune for max tq and see what their maps are.

Mike, care to share your timing maps? I love a good discussion and comparision. We can learn why they set the timing at those particular points (EPA, emissions, warranty, fuel octane, longetivity, etc) and leatn what improvements can be made without using a load dyno.

Thanks, I appreciate your input.