Harley leaving Milwaukee!!!

[triple7]

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/top-stocks/default.aspx?feat=1789378&GT1=33002
Wow, check it out. Would you buy a Chinese Hog? Hope the link works. If not, the article is in MSN money top stocks.

[dallasb]

Another bad decision

[BuellRider3158]

Harley has been saying this for years. Just like they say they are gonna go to liquid cooled baggers. A lot of BS if you ask me. If Harley moves out of country, then the brand will fail because being American is pretty much what Harley is about.

[myronman3]

chinese? no. mexican? you betcha! maybe they can build next to polaris. **** them. i got a fatboy i have to go sell.

[BamBam]

From what I read , they are talking of looking for a different state . I didn't read of them moving anywhere else .

[brightbuell]

Everyone needs to face it Harley is nothing more then a Walmart, McDonalds or Ikea. They want 13 year old kids working 80 hours for 2 bucks an hour. Thats what they will get. The question is will you still ride one? I know how i feel. Chines Harley parts, how ****ing stupid do they think we are? i hate what they have become. I went to a Harley Dealership yesterday to get my Buell paint. i saw 5 guys standing around by the front door doing nothing! Poor mgnment.

[anrkizm95]

good for harley,they need to get away from the unions.

[crxtasy169]

Harley is doomed HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHH AH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[brightbuell]

Yea, who the **** are those guys? Expecting to get paid 1/100 of what the Ceo's are making. ****ing Hwy robbery! How dare they want bennifits and paid sick days. Its all their fault that the compainy is loosing money. i know what to do send it to China and fix all the cost problems, they already make all the after market parts for Harley they might as well build the bikes too. then when we have no jobs left the chines can buy Harleys cuz we wont be able to afford a $30,000 bike. HAA!!!!!!!!! Its all CraZy!

[twp081321]

i'm so glad my bike was made 35 minutes from my house. i love my buell.

[anrkizm95]

i agree labor costs are so high here and we want everything as cheap as possible companys have no choice but to move to china.everyone whos has shopped at wal-mart has supported this.oh well cant say we didnt do it to our selves.hell we pay people more to play with balls than we do to teach our kids.

[upthemaiden]

good for harley,they need to get away from the unions.

Didn't we go through this same exact thing last time this article came out? Somehow people think that a company who's entire image and productivity is surrounded by the idea of america and american workers, is willing to move an entire factory just so they can pay the american workers people who make their products less, still has anything to do with the image that company is trying to sell?? It's fine if HD wants to ship their work somewhere else, as long as they ditch all the flags and american glory theme's from their bike and start putting stickers on them that say "this is the same bike you can get from anyone else, which you can see now that we don't have an image to sell you anymore".

I walked into the lunch room at work one day and heard some guy complaining about what was wrong with america, and he said "things are never going to get better until I can stand in line at walmart, look down at the shirt I'm buying and see a tag that says it's made in the USA". My mouth just about hit the floor. People have no concept of how their own actions cause the problems/situations they like to complain about.

[anrkizm95]

[up] you got it.and if by some chance it said made in america and cost a couple bucks more he would bitch about the price.i stay out of walmarts id rather pay more at a locally owned place.

[CBi]

I walked into the lunch room at work one day and heard some guy complaining about what was wrong with america, and he said "things are never going to get better until I can stand in line at walmart, look down at the shirt I'm buying and see a tag that says it's made in the USA".

Wow, what a complete dip****.

Things will never get better when you're standing in line at wal-mart. Ever.

What's wrong with America? Dumb ****in' people that drink the Kool-Aid.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I question EVERYTHING I see/hear/read these days.

[IYAOYAS]

i agree labor costs are so high here and we want everything as cheap as possible companys have no choice but to move to china.everyone whos has shopped at wal-mart has supported this.oh well cant say we didnt do it to our selves.hell we pay people more to play with balls than we do to teach our kids.
We demand cheapest prices and then insist on the highest wage, then bitch because you can't buy American, I own a Buell because I wanted a sportbike and did not want to send my money over seas. I pay extra to make sure my boots are made here, and do not buy from any company that is over seas. These little things aren't much, but if everyone would demand more American made products, there would be.

[sidefx]

what bikes are made in Milwaukee? I thought the only two assembly plants were Kansas city and York.

[anrkizm95]

a few years ago i tried to just buy american for a week.its impossible.even **** that says made in usa only has to be assembeled here to have that tag now. it can have up to 75 percent foreign parts in it.

[hula Buell]

interesting!!!!! [confused] They may be looking for a low or no tax state.Guess they ain't coming to Hawaii.......

[IYAOYAS]

a few years ago i tried to just buy american for a week.its impossible.even **** that says made in usa only has to be assembeled here to have that tag now. it can have up to 75 percent foreign parts in it.
I have the same problem when I do that. I just buy as much american as I can. Until the American consumer DEMANDS US made products, they will be proping up the Chinese economy.[mad]

[Alfatango1]

Just like they say they are gonna go to liquid cooled baggersThis will happen when more states require smog for bikes in the future. Same thing Porsche did with the 911. Many buyers balked at it in the beginning but now have accepted the added performance and much lower emissions.

[buellbee]

Unions are out of date, they lower efficiency and raise overhead and the price of the final product. Not saying that they should die in a hole, but they need to rethink the meaning of their existence.

Benefits such as paid sick days and w/e other **** are luxuries the company should have the OPTION of giving. They should be an incentive to lure the best employees in the industry to work for you. Not a "you better give us these things or we'll go on strike" type stuff.

Businesses are in business to make money. I think Harley moving overseas would kill the company, immediately. Their whole marketing strategy rests on the fact that it's an American made bike. Lose that and they are SOL.

Also, don't believe businesses benefit from the no income tax laws in states like individuals do. If they did though, Florida would be the place to go.

[buelladdicted]

Yea only buisnes should have legal protection,like a contract ,to protect there enterests,after all only the rich should have any leverage in this day and age. The only way unions could become out dated is if humans lost there greed,and obviously our economy proves that hasnt happened.To many opinions are based on dinner table hysteria and not fact.

[onelogue]

interesting!!!!! They may be looking for a low or no tax state.Guess they ain't coming to Hawaii.......

Yay maybe Oregon will have a chance :)

No sales tax here.

[Jon0341]

Sad... just sad

[buellbee]

Yea only buisnes should have legal protection,like a contract ,to protect there enterests,after all only the rich should have any leverage in this day and age. The only way unions could become out dated is if humans lost there greed,and obviously our economy proves that hasnt happened.To many opinions are based on dinner table hysteria and not fact.

A business that doesn't treat it's employees fairly won't have employees to work for them. Greed is what drives everyone, it's drives our economy, everyone works for more money to have nicer things. That's greed. It's a drive for more of anything, not just money.

I never said unions shouldn't be around. They do protect the workers and keep employers from being stupid, but they shouldn't demand benefits like it's illegal to not give them out.

[buelladdicted]

the word greed means ,EXCESS desire for wealth or goods.Its not exactly healthy or what should be mistaken for mans basic drive to better himself,unfortunately,as the regulation and safeguards in the constitution get torn away ,the ultimate result is slavery.

[vitor_br]

I hear you guys and I agree. If we have here a Brazilian made bike I'd buy no other. But hey, it's countless the number of people in this very forum who buy from eBay. There's even an guy from north America who moved to china to do business and many here buy from him. Firedragons I think is the name on ebay. Maybe he isn't fully American, but anyways...
the plant of General Motors here in Brazil is the biggest and the most profitable GM plant of the world, our cars have countless numbers of Chinese parts.
If you bought you girl a diamond ring you bought African.
As I said I understand and agree, but I don't think it is something that will change. As you said people buy at walmart and I only see it growing each year. Countries aren't inhabited only by pure races, think never were. It's an illusion to think that companies would have a 100% home production. I don't agree with what happens in China, but I won't agree that it's possible to have something made 100%. NO country has more than 40% own production of goods and services and some people manage to live just as happy... I wonder.

Now coming back to what the topic really talks about. I didn't read where production would be in China. anyway, Harley sucks, it's overweighted, overpriced and soon will be over ****. Love my american Buell!

[CBi]

The pay ratio between factory worker and CEO has gotten out of hand. This is a major problem with American corporations. Execs think they deserve 6 or 7 figure salaries, and workers think they should be making 75-100k a a year.

[buellbee]

When companies put up huge profit numbers, there is nothing wrong with those numbers. Hell if an oil company wants to pay a janitor 75K then so be it, it's their money.

Execs got to where they did through hard work or sucking dick. Either way, the decisions they make and the strategies they implement directly impact everyone at the company. They do deserve to make that kind of money if the company is successful.

[bbletterin]

I believe in getting ahead in life, but what makes it right is when one pulls others up with them. Harley has made its name on american made & hope they never change that, but in the cost department,have there CEO's and upper management taken the same cuts as the workers they are getting ready to displace? The American way has been to keep paying upper company people at the cost of the ones that actualy make the product. The next problem is how those employees feel and ultimatly perform there jobs,tring to have pride, keep doing a good job & keep quality high. Many companys like Nissan,Hyundai,& Toyota have come here to build their vehicles stating Americans are productive. I don't know all the details of Harley wanting to jump states,but know that there actions will have consiqences & may not serve their best intrests in the end. Closing Buell has caused many to jump from their brand. Think before act! Thanks for readin.

[myronman3]

rep point for bbletterin

[buellbee]

^agreed, solid post.

[triple7]

I was a die hard leatherd up to the core Harley rider for many many years. I am very involved with different clubs and organizations throughout the Harley community. I cannot believe the decisions comming from the top brass at Harley Davidson. Alot of people I have talked to are turning away from Harley because of it. I am talking real bikers that have been bikers for a long time. I am one of them. It seems they no longer care for the values that made them what they are today. They no longer care for the American worker or his family or the communities that have kept them alive for so long. It seems they have lost touch with reality. Real Americans when crap hits the fan stick together and stick it out. But hey Harley, if you want to bail out from the American people and families when times get a little rough all in the name of proffits, well. I guess your not the company I thought you were, and there are alot of other bikes out there for alot less money.

[buellbee]

^That's the thing, they make their money off their reputation of being American made, having American values.

[Alfatango1]

They really make their money off merchandise not motorcycles. People buy into the lifestyle of Harley Davidson. A biker is a mindset not a lifestyle. Most who buy HD are not bikers. If someone tells you they have a Harley do you see them as a biker? Do they fly colors or are they just dressed in pirate gear? There's a big difference.

60 to 70 percent of their revenue comes from shirts not bikes and the percentage of merchandise buyers that are bike owners is probably less than 40%.

I'd be willing to bet that a whole lot of people would still buy an HD made overseas because of the perceptions that they are "Bikers" not because they really are.

[anrkizm95]

[up][up] alfatango1

[myronman3]

that may be, but i have been around harleys my entire life. after the screw over they did to erik, they werent getting any more of my business. so this latest crock really cant hurt them anymore, except for me spreading the word and running my mouth about what scumbags they are.
and for all you guys who hate the EVIL UNIONS, just go ask erik who the real assholes are.... his beloved employees, or the suits raping and pillaging for all they can get? funny, i didnt hear ONE WORD from erik about the unions screwing him over.

[cb750]

They really make their money off merchandise not motorcycles. People buy into the lifestyle of Harley Davidson. A biker is a mindset not a lifestyle. Most who buy HD are not bikers. If someone tells you they have a Harley do you see them as a biker? Do they fly colors or are they just dressed in pirate gear? There's a big difference.

60 to 70 percent of their revenue comes from shirts not bikes and the percentage of merchandise buyers that are bike owners is probably less than 40%.

I'd be willing to bet that a whole lot of people would still buy an HD made overseas because of the perceptions that they are "Bikers" not because they really are. I've said it for a long time, HD doesn't sell motorcycles, they sell an image, and bikes are part of the image.

On the unions, I've heard a lot of people bitch about how unions are bad, unions are greedy, but no one bitches about the top brass that sinks the company and then gets a multi-million severance package when they resign.

I'm union and I make $25.42 an hour. That's $52,800/year. There are production people who make more with incentive pay, but they work their asses off for it.

[Alfatango1]

I'm union and I make $25.42 an hour. That's $52,800/year. There are production people who make more with incentive pay, but they work their asses off for it. How many more dollars does per hour does it cost for your pension? And how about your medical, dental and vision? Another $15 or more I would imagine. Plus all the sick time, vacation and personal days your company must put money aside for. Total cost per hour is closer to $50 or $55 for your employer. Makes it hard to be competitive.

[myronman3]

alfa.... obviously i am union, too. and my company is about 1/2 and union/ half non. the guys that are non actually make more per hour and get more vacation days than us. the big difference between us is the job security. and all that means is that your time with the company counts for something when a layoff or job elimination comes. whereas if you are non union, it doesnt matter a lick; 28 years with a company and they can ax you without blinking.
there is ALOT of misconceptions out there about unions and how it works. propaganda as i call it....

[myronman3]

oh, and they can fire us every bit as fast as non union. like i said, alot of misunderstanding out there about unions.

[Alfatango1]

I do have a lot of union knowledge too. My father retired from the airlines after 30 years and was union. My best friend is a police officer here in San Diego with 29 years under his belt. I worked for the city and was in a union for 5 years while going to college. If you're in a union it's great for you. If your a business owner not so much. Our city lost over a billion dollars when the local construction union fought with Gaylord Hotels trying to force them to hire only local and only union workers. Gaylord balked since they could prove that there was no way the city could provide that many bodies. When the union said OK but even if you outsource from Orange and L.A. County and if you use non union workers, they have to pay union dues. Well Gaylord said see you!

Having said all this I don't have an issue with private sector company unions as long as they can compete and pay their workers and make a profit for the shareholders. If they can't then they will do what they can to survive. My dad lost all his medical benefits through a bankruptcy and only has Medicare now. His pensions were well invested so he's fine there.

My biggest gripe is with public agencies and their pensions and unions. My state is billions in debt and services are being cut and the pensions are guaranteed by tax dollars. No matter what happens the tax payers will have to pay for benefits that we don't enjoy. If the services are there and the tax dollars are reasonable fine, but when it's mismanaged the laws should be repealed and the contracts broken and renegotiated through bankruptcy just like the private sector.

[Paniller]

That factory in China that makes the rubber dinosaurs probably has a better R&D department, anyway. Maybe they can turn things around.

[bbletterin]

Union,non union, did the people keep quality high, Earn their rasis, pay their taxes! Companys are doing the cut and run everywhere. How can a company shut down an established facility and rebuild elsewhere,& have to retrain workers and make more money doing this. Government pays for it,some local,some US government.The company wants people to buy their products but with reduced wages & lost jobs how can anyone buy anything? This is happining everywhere, & if it keeps happining the American dream will be just that an unreachable dream. Harley is following the new american business stratagy. Welcome to life in 2010.

[Coda]

The biggest reason businesses leave the US is taxes. The government taxes business so much it makes financial sense for them to leave the country and have things shipped here at the same or lesser cost for them and us as consumers.

First and foremost businesses (large, publicly traded which is 98% of what is being described here) do not really answer to the consumer, they answer to their owners, the shareholders. Without products we buy and approve of they answer to the shareholders who let it be known they aren't happy by selling their stock and causing their value to decline.

If a CEO makes the company more profitable through decisions they make then they most certainly deserve the large salaries and bonuses they receive when the shareholders are receiving a greater return on their investment. The scumbags that cook the books and cause these companies to collapse have given a black eye to the ones that are doing their job and doing it well.

As far as unions, their time and place in this country have come and gone, period. It's a racket and it disgusts me, I get to deal with it at work. You do not deserve a job, you're not owed a job, and just because you've been with a company longer does not mean that during a layoff you should retain yours if a guy thats been there 6 months to your 6 years is more productive. In general Unions cause inflation wherever they are prevalent. Look at the cost of living where unions a re prevalent vs the cost of living where they are not. But keep demanding more, keep costs rising and keep collectively bargaining yourselves out of a job. It's amazing those non union auto plants in the south make products that are just as good and reliable as the union produced vehicles. The buildings that non union contractors magically build don't collapse every day, they're just built for fewer dollars. All union means is you're not strong enough or good enough to negotiate your own way through life anymore. Unions served a great purpose in this country at one point in time, they did their job well and should know when to bow out before the companies you extort are completely destroyed.

As for Harley, I like em, would buy one if I felt like it. Would be even easier if they were built less expensively in Mississippi or Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, etc.

[anrkizm95]

[up][up]coda

[Alfatango1]

The buildings that non union contractors magically build don't collapse every day, they're just built for fewer dollars. Well said! I built custom homes in AZ where it is a right to work state and they where better carpenters and builders than I had in California where the union pushed me to hire them all the time.

[BuddhaBuell]

The biggest reason businesses leave the US is taxes.
NAFTA is the real reason....
North America is being systematically dismantled..
the banker bailout $$$ were sent overseas..
the next collapse will be commercial realestate...
the empire is crumbling as they have planned it....
knowledge is power and ignorance is bliss..

apoligies for thread hijack
[smirk]

[xtremelow]

As far as Union around me it had it's ups an downs based upon the company. I am non-union and make better money than most shops around me and I also have better job security. Along with this I have zero fear if losing my job with the economy as it is, my shop is actually hiring and just this year we have brought in 75 new jobs to a 425 man shop, also we are hiring another 90 over the next 3 years for some new job we are doing.

Any how union or not some times it is just up to the top dogs to see how a business is run.

In the face of Harley they need to just look at the top end and make changes there as IMO that is where the problems lie.

[bbletterin]

Harly ,as I read it, isn't going overseas. Now how again does a company close a facility thats allready established and start over in another state. Some form of government is going to give tax breaks,or free land or some sort of incentive. End result the people are paying for the change. All the companys are doing it. Not argueing the unions cause unique problems. Is anything off limits? What happens to the vacant places,who lives there then. Are people worth anything? Malls last about 20 years then another comes to take its place. old one rots. companys are getting the same. Productive people age ,get slower its nature,should they all go as well? Retirement policys & pensions used to be a staple benefit in companys, now 401k's that tend to lose when needed most are. Just remember we all age,and rely on what we have earned. Moving can cause many problems,not all are on the payrole books.People have sacrificed to get where they are. people the expendable resourse.

[Alfatango1]

also have better job security. Along with this I have zero fear if losing my job with the economy as it is, Explain that please. That is what the unions preach, better job security and zero fear of losing their jobs. If you are an non union shop or business tell the others here how and why you have competed and prevailed. I know that the non union workers who built my sub divisions were as good if not better than the guys who worked for me in California. I made more money and my workers were paid a just wage. Remember, I put up several hundreds thousand dollars of my own funds to build a few custom houses, I put up the risk, not the guys I hired.( Not directed at Xtreme, just giving background, want his input)

[buellbee]

^He just shows them our epic picture thread and it's instant job security.

[BuddhaBuell]

^He just shows them our epic picture thread and it's instant job security.
thats hi-larious!
:D

being that as neighbours we share much more then just a border.
hows aboot a quick economics info session...

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[myronman3]

like someone said above, when everything is made overseas, and no one here is working, who the hell is going to be left to buy anything? the long story short is that someone flushed the toliet, and the whole works is spinning. and once the water starts to spin, you arent going to stop the flush. best to learn to swim, boys.

[BPlass]

60 to 70 percent of their revenue comes from shirts not bikes and the percentage of merchandise buyers that are bike owners is probably less than 40%.

Funny, and I walked all through the local HD shop in Appleton to try to find one article of clothing or merchandise that said "Made in USA", have yet to find one. Bastards.

[triple7]

Wow, didnt expect the topic of Harley moving to take this kind of turn. So, my 2 cents. I have worked both, union and non-union. Why do you think a Japanese bike costs 1/2 what a Harley costs? Its because of the different frame of mind in the workers. In Japan the workers are all about the company. If the company does good then I do good. Here, it is all about what can the company can do for me. I'm sorry if that assesment offends anyone but I feel its the truth. I love America and served her in the Air Force and think there is no better place to live. I also think that when crap hits the fan there is nobody with more heart, honor, charity, and ingenuity than Americans. But I also think greed and selfishness is a disease that now infects us and hopefully we can wake up and outgrow that way of thinking for the betterment of us all. Greed and selfishness is the reason we allow oil giants to rape and pillage our planet, (BP). Greed and selfishness is the reason we allow drug dealers and their poison in our homes and schools. Greed and selfishness are the reason why politicians,judges and some in authority are corrupt. Anyway, hopefully things will change and Harley moving will be the worst of our problems.

[Coda]

Greed and selfishness are nothing more than current buzzwords.

The "oil giants" are not raping the country. The politicians that prevented them from drilling in more accessible locations are equally to blame for the BP spill as is the government that oversaw and monitored the drilling. There is plenty of oil that can be drilled for that isn't a MILE deep in the water. But no, lets not allow that.

Greed and selfishness have nothing to do with drug dealers. I don't even get that. That is ignorance, unfortunately the animals that deal drugs aren't publicly executed, especially the ones that prey on children.

Greed and selfishness is 100% to blame for the scumbags that make up our Government. There needs to be term limits, government was never meant to be a life long career and allowing it has caused a great deal of this mess we're in. If the politicians hadn't spent the country into this enormous hole we wouldn't need to be taxed to death which forces companies to move overseas where they can be more profitable and in return offer their investors (ie: GREEDY Americans) a better return on their investment.

As for Greed, it's what makes the US economy work, it's what creates all the wealth and standard of living we all get to enjoy in this country. No one needs to fool themselves, the poorest among us in the US live better lifestyles than the the majority of the rest of the world. Bill Gates is one greedy bastard, but look at how many jobs he has created, how many people he made wealthy while he was becoming absolutely filthy rich. All the people that started companies that employ the millions of Americans did so for selfish purposes, to MAKE money, and more than they could working for someone else. No one goes into business hoping that they make less than they could punching a clock for someone else.

The biggest problem the country faces is the absolute sense of entitlement that is felt by so many here. Thanks to our corrupt gov't the rank and file of the entitlement class grow everyday. Until this stops and we return to a culture of hard working, responsible for ourselves people the country will continue to decline. The "Greatest Generation" and those before them had to earn everything they had, and they are who built this great nation, and they are getting to watch it collapse in their twilight. Thanks to the government that perpetuated the policies of FDR which were meant to be temporary we are now infected with millions upon millions who feel they "deserve" everything simply by being born.

Sorry, this got way off topic but it hit a nerve.
Not meant as an attack triple7.

[myronman3]

the problem with putting your undying trust in the company, with the mindset "if the company does good, i do good" is not true anymore. ceos and other suits RAPING companies and golden parachuting on down is a really big problem now. in fact, that whole mindset is EXACTLY what has gotten this country into the current jam we are in. and their solution? more of the same practices.
one needs look no further than the way harley ****ED erik over to see what i am talking about. instead of selling them, they disassembled Buell at a HUGE loss. why? i guareentee you, somebody high up there had a scheme to make huge money off of it. probably something to do with personal investment in aprilia and figured if buell didnt exist, stock on that would be much higher and they would make a mint. all you have to do is follow the money....

[triple7]

No prob coda, as far as the drug thing went, I meant there is to much money involved (greed and selfishness) for them to be stopped by politics or higher ups. There are to many payoffs and let it slide money, ect. I agree we need stiffer penalties or harsher justice. Try getting away with things like drunk driving or stealing in Iran! They just kill you or chop your hand off. But I dont understand why you dont think oil industry isnt raping us all. 1000% profit? Come on. How much is enough? All the money in the world? What idiot said "Hey, lets drill a mile below the sea so when the pipe breaks we cant fix it." That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. The oceans supply our food and water ect. And we are going to take a chance at screwing that up. Its just insane. I have heard that the technology for wind, solar, electric, ect is out there, that we have engines that get 100 mpg but the oil companys wont let them out - (they buy up the patents or just kill you)and I dont doubt it. When you are talking billions of dollars, what do you think you are worth.

[afinley]

They really make their money off merchandise not motorcycles. People buy into the lifestyle of Harley Davidson. A biker is a mindset not a lifestyle. Most who buy HD are not bikers. If someone tells you they have a Harley do you see them as a biker? Do they fly colors or are they just dressed in pirate gear? There's a big difference.

60 to 70 percent of their revenue comes from shirts not bikes and the percentage of merchandise buyers that are bike owners is probably less than 40%.



Not even close. $808.8 million for bikes in Q2, $66.3 for clothes in the same period.

http://investor.harley-davidson.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=461230

[dodew69]

Greed is bad, I have worked for Union and non-Union. The company I work for now (union)we have been on strike 11 weeks I won't name any names (DR. Pepper Snapple Group). They had a profit of 555 million yet they want to cut our pay 1.50 per hour it was 2.50 but NY has a % you can't cut more than so they went with 1.50 . No more pension cut or benefits and make us pay more for them ,I don't mind paying more but don't give us less of them. If they were losing money i could see it but they aren't. There are other way to save and cut spending like waste etc. All these company are going to kill the middle class to fill their pockets . If Harley wants to move, with no middle class they still won't sell bikes

[Alfatango1]

Not even close. $808.8 million for bikes in Q2, $66.3 for clothes in the same period.
How about historically? And how about licensing world wide? And where is their greatest gross profit from?

[Alfatango1]

Greed is bad, I have worked for Union and non-Union. The company I work for now (union)we have been on strike 11 weeks
What is greedy? An assembler that makes $30 bucks plus benefits an hour (for a total of $55) or the guy who started the company and gave the assembler a job? This country gives everyone a chance to make it big, and anyone who works hard can become successful. If a person wants to be a worker and thinks they deserve to have certain things given to them, I say they should take a risk and start their own company and see the what it takes. Until then be glad you have an opportunity to feed your family and yourself and don't assume someone owes you something.

[dodew69]

Greedy - excessive desire. I never said they owed me anything and when you assume it just makes an ass out of u and me

[Alfatango1]

I wasn't talking about you I was making a point about a lot of people who think just because they work a person or company they are entitled. They are entitled to a pay check, if they can do better they should. Some desire to be owners, some only want to work. nothing wrong with either one. In this country if someone has a desire to be successful they shouldn't be knocked for it.

Explain what you mean by excessive desire? What is greedy? A person who starts a company with his own sweat and tears who is a multi millionaire? Is there a limit to what he or she can or should make? And should they give a portion of there wealth other than wages to the workers? I'm curious as to your views. Seriously, no bs.

[Coda]

Ok, the oil companies do NOT make 1000% profit, not even remotely close. Research that and also look into their profit margins, which is much more indicative of any "greed" that may be taking place.

The reason they are drilling that far out is that is where it is allowed because it would be blasphemous to drill closer to shore in shallow water or in ANWR. For that you can thank the scumbags in government. We need oil, they have to drill for it where it is. At this point a lot of the oil in the Gulf is being drilled for by China.

Solar power is prohibitively expensive and only works with government subsidy, ie: taxpayer money for someone else's personal use. Wind works where there's enough, but again, the powers that be, the Democrats, shot it down in Mass.

As for motors that get 100mpg... do you really think that they could keep that under wraps? Thats conspiracy theory stuff. If, and it's a really really big if there was such a motor and an oil company owned the patent, which if it existed we would be allowed to see as they are public record, they would stand to make more on it than oil because it would be so popular they couldn't make enough of them and then the resource they need most to stay solvent would last them longer and their most expensive liability, exploratory drilling, wouldn't negatively impact their margins as much.

Either way, the world is what it is. Buying American won't change it anymore than other countries buying their own goods. The only thing I would like to see is if any country imposes a tariff on US imports then there should be an equal tariff here for their goods. I believe in free trade, period. Whats good for the goose should be good for the gander. If other countries don't want to play by those rules than cancel trade with them, although I wouldn't want to have to explain that to the employees of companies that do export lots of goods, like Caterpillar.

[anrkizm95]

smokey yunicks hot vapor fiero 51 miles per gallon 0-60 6 seconds.this patent was sold to oil company in the 80s.this vechicle was carburated and did not have the benefit of computer controls and fuel injection.i see no reason this technology would not have surpassed 100 miles per gallon by now.if it wasnt trashed for profit reasons.theres many more examples out there.

[afinley]

How about historically? And how about licensing world wide? And where is their greatest gross profit from?

1. Historically it is about the same.
2. All companies report earnings worldwide.
3. Bikes! 808:60!

Yeah it is fun to trash talk Harley guys and just say they're buying a lifestyle with their Harley jackets and hats, but they start that lifestyle with a $15k bike.

[Coda]

And yet the evil oil companies haven't squashed hybrids yet, or the Chevy Volt? We're talking about billions of dollars here, these cars will never produce that kind of profit.

[anrkizm95]

hybrids dont get good enough fuel milage.40 mpg today is nothing when i met my wife she had a precius that got 35 mpg in 88 it was carburated. you must be younger research the ev1 this was crushed by big oil.ifc network has doc on this.the ev1 was chevys first ele car.

[triple7]

It is very cool you can get on a site like this with all these different opinions and we can be civil with each other. Thanks guys, I appreciate all your input and thoughts. Thanks coda for giving me your opinion and not making me feel like an idiot. This site rules. :)

[Alfatango1]

Yeah it is fun to trash talk Harley guys and just say they're buying a lifestyle with their Harley jackets and hats, but they start that lifestyle with a $15k bike.
I never talked trash about "Harley Guys" I said they were not bikers. Are you saying if you buy a $15,000 Harley you are a biker? I said HD buyers by and large are buying an image and life style and they were not bikers! It's true! Ask an Diablo or Hells Angel the next time you see one and ask if the guy with the new Fat Boy is a biker just because he has a Harley.

[Alfatango1]

1. Historically it is about the same.
2. All companies report earnings worldwide.
3. Bikes! 808:60!
And these bullet points don't prove much. These are not historic financial statements or year end reports. Wow! is this your proof? "Historically it is about the same"? For what a quarter? A year? Ten? Fifteen? Historically it's about the same! OK, you did a cut and paste from one quarter so that is historical?

[afinley]

Read the link. They list all their financial reports for years. The sentance after what I cut for you says exactly how far off both numbers are from the year before.