sprag clutch questions

[bwylie_99]

So after doing the ebr rotor upgrade I didn't get the nut on tight enough and it started to make some bad sounds. Took it apart and the retaining ring on the back of the rotor had come free. Put it all back together and now it makes the worst grinding sounds on start up. Fml. Is the sprag clutch fubar'd or should I fire my mechanic? It's possible I still don't have the nut tightened to 300ft lbs as I don't have a torque wrench that goes that high. Help

[Cosworth]

If its actually grinding you need to disassemble the rotor side and see what is grinding, How did you go about tightening it up, I just went through all of this I only had a torque wrench good for 250lbs then put a breakover on it and went a little more. If its even close to 250lbs or so you should not hear any grinding noise.

First and foremost we need to know what and where the grinding noise is coming from. The sprag starter clutch in our bikes is basically the same setup as ducati's which are also notorious for sprag failures.

[Shawns]

I believe you can replace the bearing in the sprag.

[bwylie_99]

It just doesn't want to start. Makes horrible sounds. I think I'll take it apart tomorrow and take a look, wish me luck!

[Cosworth]

Post pics, The sprag isnt so much a bearing (looks like one) but the "dogs" (bearing like cylinders) wedge against the crankshaft in one direction only when starting. Its possible one of the bolts didnt go in all the way on the back of the rotor assembly or something is contacting now. It is possible to install the sprag backward so let us know what you find!


kinda off topic
Ive delt with similar starting systems on a old Vmax I had. There is a spring around the outside of the dogs that keep tension on them enough to start contact with the crankshaft when the starter engaged till the dogs grab on their own. I know ducati guys were having issues with this spring crapping out and they were using the lip spring from lip seals to correct the issue without buying new sprags.

[bwylie_99]

Your pretty cool cosworth

[Shawns]

I know i'm going to regret this. I have a spare sprag assay if you find yourself in a bind. Every time I get rid of extra parts, I need the one I just got rid of..lol

[bwylie_99]

+[up]
How much you want? I'm probably going to need it!

[Shawns]

Lets see if thats your issue first and we will go from there.:D

[bwylie_99]

Today was a wash. It's too freaking hot to venture into the garage. Perhaps tomorrow!

[Matteson]

Keep us updated. I am afraid I may be getting into this as well. I found this today.Metal (https://imageshack.com/i/ezHqQHrej)chunks (https://imageshack.com/i/f0dIcjqCj)

[Shawns]

Ehh thats nothing this is what was in mine after the rotor nut backed off.

http://www.buellxb.com/buell_images/17116_20140727191046_L.jpg

Which was a result of this.

http://www.buellxb.com/buell_images/17116_20140701172002_L.jpg

[Matteson]

Thanks Shawns. You give the peace I need to rest a little better tonight. Sorry for the thread jack bro.

[bwylie_99]

I'm an idiot. I have a terrible mechanic! Found the problem. It's the retaining ring on the sprag clutch. Wylie coyote super genius didn't have it in the sprag correctly. Starts like a champ. No horrible sounds. No grinding. No clunk turning off. I have no idea how much torque is on the rotor nut. A three foot cheater bar and all I could pull is exactly what she got!

[Shawns]

Awesome. Wait your not your own mechanic are you?:D

[bwylie_99]

Well everything went smoothly until she warmed up today. I don't know if the locktight didn't hold or what, but after she warmed up starting making noises and the starter is acting up.

When I had it all together I noticed there is play in the starter gear that sits behind the rotor. The nut was at 250 ft lb tight and I could still move the starter gear. Is this right? Quick someone run out, pull your oil line, take the cover off and see if you can wiggle the gear! Right.....

[bwylie_99]

I really don't understand, when I first had it back together it started and ran perfect. Starter worked right no sounds. Btw I am my mechanic, cuz I'm f'n poor! Phuck I really wanted to have this problem solved!

[Matteson]

I feel for you bro. Do all these 11's clunk when they shut off? You know like a loud clank.

[bwylie_99]

For starters I reused the rotor nut. I used locktight red 262 which is only rated for 3/4 max, and I probably don't have it tight enough. I don't really understand how everything works so good after I first put it back together.
I'm positive I know the problem. The starter gear that goes in the sprag clutch on the back of the rotor has play once it's all assembled. I think it ends up being the culprit as it more than likely wobbles or binds up slightly. Maybe it is the sprag. Seems to work fine when I have it in my hands......grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Cosworth]

Is it making the noise all the time once warmed up or just when starting? Mine makes a pretty nasty clunk from time to time while starting which is the compression build up backlashing the sprag which releases the dogs and clunks when it regrabs the starter gear. 1125's are known to be VERY noisy engines.

[bwylie_99]

It's not just a grinding sound, it flat won't start. Yesterday after assembly no grinding at all. Fired right up, I turned it off no clunk....perfect. I started it again a couple times everything was awesome. I picked up then started it and let it warm up. All of a sudden at about 172 degrees I hear it. Turn it off and it grinds. Take it all apart do it again this time tight as a nuns asshole and same thing. I cuss my stupidity at using locktight 262 and today everything back apart reassemble with high heat locktight and borrow neighbors air impact and go nuts. Exactly the same thing. Wtf. I love precious, but if I can't ride her what's the f'n point!

[bwylie_99]

How does the compression release work? Anyone Bueller Bueller?

[Shawns]

try you local advanced or auto zone and see if they have a 3/4' torque wrench. This way you can eliminate one thing. Not sure on the compression release, I don't believe they have it.

[Cosworth]

Is the inner sprag turning inside its cage, give me a few moments ill try to take and post a picture of what im talking about

Having trouble with my computer, but its possible the sprag wobbled when it was backed off and now after it warms up the tolerances are too far off.

[bwylie_99]

It's the sprag. I checked everything else out and it's all fine. So for ****s n giggles I flipped the retaining ring over and reinstalled it. Completely different noise, same exact problem. It starts better now, but with the awful noises it makes I doubt it will for long so until I get another sprag it's back to ol reliable to putt around on!

[Cosworth]

Yup better safe than sorry, buy a new one before it disintegrates further... I'd make sure and do a thorough oil change when you put the new sprag in. Might go as far as to drop the oil pump screen while your at it.

[bwylie_99]

I dump the oil pump screen every oil change!

[Shawns]

Lets hope the crankshaft isn't worn unevenly from the sprag Here are a few pics of my spare. Sprag clutch moves freely and doesn't show signs of wear, and the spey clutch housing looks great as well. Holy F#$* I can't believe what these 2 cost. Almost $200 for the clutch and $100 for the housing and $23 for shipping. What ever happened to flat rate? I hope someone else gets ahold of the patents and makes them cheaper

[bwylie_99]

Shawns, you rock. As to cheaper parts.....hahaha!

[Cosworth]

Ive been eyeing a used ducati sprag on ebay if its cheap enough Im gonna snag one just to see if its the same.

[Matteson]

So do I have to take the 6 bolts out on the rotor to remove the sprag. Power ia out for 12 hours and my manual is on the computer.

[Shawns]

Yep from the looks of it.

[Matteson]

got it. this is a mess. the sprag had been scrubbing and made this fine metallic toothpaste feeling stuff in there. this is and expensive little part.

[Shawns]

If you don't have any flat spots, soak it in brake clean then some good oil and see how it is.