still stuttering...

[Lando]

i have a 08 xb12scg, has 1900 miles, I've done a breather re-route and I still have stuttering when I blip the gas at stop signs and lights. It did get a bit better, but not much.

Do I need a TPS reset?

I bought the bike with 1600 miles and I think it never had the 1000 mile service done, not sure. It was a demo bike. Ive changed the fluids already to Amsoil in both holes.

The manufacture date is July 07. do you know if ECMSPY would work on it?

Thanks,
Lando

[LeFox]

lando, there's no need to post this in several forums. the only thing you get by doing that is a higher postcount and less response to you actual post.
(this is the correct forum for the post and is the only one that remains)

as for your problem...

to be on the safe side, as you don't know if it has a service or not is to perform one.
while doing that, get your battery on a tender so it's 100% loaded and ready to go.

my guess is that after that is done, you're baby will pur like a kitten. ;)

[GatorBuell]

Yep, thats what I was thinking too Lefox. If the battery is not at 100% it will feel like its missing. The bike will crank fine but will have a miss. If you can get your hands on a volt meter you can test it. If you put it on a charger overnight then take it off for about 2 or 3 hours and the volt meter says its less than 12.9v your battery is going out. 12.2v and your battery is only at 25%.

[Tork]

Better yet, take your battery to Autozone or other jiffy-parts place and they'll check your battery under a load for free. Much better diagnosis. Your battery could show 12-13V on a voltmeter, but still not have enough amperage capacity to crank, or still have a problem fully charging. In that case, you'd be chasing your tail thinking the battery is good.

[Lando]

LeFox, I didn't mean to double post but i made the other one first and didn't know how to delet it when i realized it was in the wrong section, thanks for the help though.

As for my problem, it isn't happening at startup, its after the bike is running, while i'm riding.
Allot of people say that their bike boggs or hesitates when their at a stop light, and once they do the breather reroute, it solves the problem.
Well, for me it didn't.
Would a battery that's not fully charged make the bike hesitate/bogg while it's running?

Also, does anybody know if a xb with a manufacture date of July 07 can be tuned with ecmspy?

Thanks guys.
Lando

[Stevenc150]

Would a battery that's not fully charged make the bike hesitate/bogg while it's running?
Don't think so. If your's has an idle screw, adjust it, after a short ride, to around 1050rpm. Also, you might check your plugs. If bad replace with Iridiums (NGK# DCPR9EIX). They're almost foul-proof. If plugs are good go for a TPS reset via dealer or ECMSpy.



Also, does anybody know if a xb with a manufacture date of July 07 can be tuned with ecmspy? Yes

[LeFox]

Would a battery that's not fully charged make the bike hesitate/bogg while it's running?


Don't think so. If your's has an idle screw, adjust it, after a short ride, to around 1050rpm. Also, you might check your plugs. If bad replace with Iridiums (NGK# DCPR9EIX). They're almost foul-proof. If plugs are good go for a TPS reset via dealer or ECMSpy.
yes, it will...a bad or not fully loaded battery will give you a bad ignition, resulting in bogging & hesitation. ;)

[Stevenc150]

yes, it will...a bad or not fully loaded battery will give you a bad ignition, resulting in bogging & hesitation.
Hmm, didn't occur to me that it had an affect while running, but it makes sense.

[fahren]

I am prepping to do diagnostics on my '06 xb12Ss to see why it stutters not only at low speeds but now in mid-ride: first I thought I had messed something up when doing breather re-route, since the problem showed up immediately after doing the mod as soon as I took it out to run it in closed loop mode to get the bike to re-set itself. The bike ran fine before the breather work, except for the low speed unevenness that I hoped to clear up with the breather mod. So, I got back, looked at my work, looked for pinched lines, problems along plug wires (especially front wire, since breather lines now go down near there). I made sure the breather lines were not pinching stuff, and I went back out to test ride.

Well, now from that ride I have another clue that is probably related and maybe even the cause, but then again, maybe not: the CEL came on, and it gives an O2 sensor code 13. This happened when I was riding on a more fun (curvy) rode, and the stuttering was actually making the curves pretty scary, since the throttle was stuttering as I rolled it on and off thru the turns in between 3000 and 4000!!! I wonder if there is a problem with the sensor, or did I jog loose the O2 sensor wire in the tin-foiled/plastic clip/going into a gnarly harness area - it is right there at the breather hose area, so... another thing to check. But definitely the plugs need a look-see as well, and the battery.

So, diagnostics to do: check for chafed wires, pinched lines, fouled plugs (will replace with NGK's), do code 13 diagnostic checks (I am hoping I can do these using my ECMSpy), then swap out O2 sensor anyway; look to see if throttle body vacuum port plug fell out when doing breather mod; check for intake leak; check battery; do TPS and AFV reset...

Anything else anyone can think of to add to my big list before I tear into it (and do my 10,000 mile fluid changes/checks as well)? Bike is stock '06 xb12Ss(now w/ breather mod done).

[LeFox]

...'06 xb12Ss to see why it stutters not only at low speeds but now in mid-ride: first I thought I had messed something up when doing breather re-route, since the problem showed up immediately after doing the mod as soon as I took it out to run it in closed loop mode to get the bike to re-set itself.
the bike doesn't reset itself...you have to reset it and let it learn

[fahren]

No, you are right - I didn't mean re-setting the tps by itself; rather, just letting it adjust to any change in a/f due to the breather. People speak of such great improvement in low speed smoothness due to a simple breather mod, and for the need to ride a bit in closed loop mode for the bike to re-adjust to the change in air intake - but something is amiss with my bike now that this is done. I really only wanted to let the bike breathe cleaner air, w/o oil crudding up the airbox, throttle control, etc. But now I have clean air intake, the same old roughness at low speed/low rpm, and this new stuttering hesitancy in the throttle when rolling on and off at medium speed/medium rev... and, an o2 sensor issue lighting up the Check Engine Light now as well.

I look on the bright side - I bought the bike used last year, and now, at just under 10K miles, this gives me a great chance to get to know the bike better by pulling things apart and checking them all out while doing regular scheduled maintenance.

So, if you can think of any pointers, sequencing advice, or issues to look at that I may have overlooked, I would welcome the input. Somewhere, between air, fuel and spark there is a solution!

[TylerTech]

I had similar problems on my 04 xb12s after doing a breather reroute, a tps and afv reset fixed mine. Also sounds like you may have not got the exhaust throttle module hooked back up maybe, its the one that sits on the top of the air box.

[fahren]

ah - another item for the honeybuell list :) Thanks. Now if the rain ever stops I can actually pull the bike out and do some work on it!

[fahren]

Update: still having the sputtering/missing at mid-range rpm (3500-4500 +/- rpm) with the bike fully warmed up, and w/ low throttle (like around 1/8 throttle or so, usually as I am coming off a run and letting up on the throttle to engine brake a bit). So far, I have checked for wiring/plug wire/ pinched lines issues, checked for the vacuum port plug on the throttle body, changed to NGK iridiums, and reset TPS and AFV. No change. I never unhooked the exhaust throttle module from the top of the airbox when I opened things up to work on it, so it doensn't seem to be from that. The CEL has not come back on, though, and the ECMspy did not pick up a code 13 (o2 sensor issue) when I plugged it in. ECMspy voltage readings are solid, so I don't think it is the battery. So now I am fairly baffled. Should I go ahead and change out the o2 sensor anyway? I do not think I am getting great gas mileage at this point, if that is at all a clue. Have filled up several times w/ 93 octane (my normal brew) since this has started, so it is not bad gas, either. What other diagnostics could I do with ECMspy that might clue me in? Any other ideas?

[GatorBuell]

Check for intake leaks with either a propane torch and some hose or carb cleaner. Turn the propane on (with out the flame) and move it around the intake manifold or spray some carb cleaner around the intake manifold and listen for changes in rpm. Also plug wires could be an issue, Make sure the 02 sensor wire is not in contact with a plug wire. Fuel injection is sensitive to RF noise coming from a bad plug wire, that could be the source of the trouble code 13. Thats why Buell uses a carbon core instead of a wire core spark plug wire.

[fahren]

Of those 2, my suspicion is leaning toward the 02 sensor and issues with the wires, since this was not a problem before I ripped open the airbox to do the breather mod, and it showed up right away afterwards. Also, the wires for the o2 sensor right where the clip connection is (under the airbox) look like my 8-year old decided he was going to play bike mechanic for a day: there's a sort of half a$$'d tin-foil wrapper in what I guess is some feeble attempt to shield the wires before they go into the big wire bundle, but honestly, I can't imagine it coming from the factory like this. More digging to do. And yes, thanks - I can't rule anything out right now, so I'll check the air intake.

[stopie20]

I am haveing a similar issue with my 07 XB12s it has 1300 miles on it now and I have already done the breather re-rout, K&N filter, air box mod, VOODOO exhaust and tuned my Mike at Xopti. But I still have issues while riding at a crusing speed and in a nutral throttle position it just feels like it has a miss but when you roll into or romp the throttle it is super smooth?

[fahren]

Right. As soon as you give a good twist of the wrist, the bike comes back to life, but just before, it feels as if it will sputter to a stall! Not having this problem at low speed thru town - it's really as stopie says, at cruising speed: mid-rpm, low throttle.

[jaypelaz]

mine is doing this..did the tps rest.. thought it was fixed..still doing it..damn it..did u find anything yet?

[Trill]

Mine does it still too. Even after the reroute and tuning and everything it still acts up now and then.. I just deal with it.

[fahren]

I think all my woes were stemming from battery connection (+) and both grounds to the frame vibrating loose. I tightened them up, and ALL IS GOLDEN. Unbelievable!

[Furr146]

I also have a 09' xb12scg an it has the same hiccup. This only occurs when leaving from a light between 1500 to 2000 rpm. i've taken it to two dealers numerous times an they have told me there was nothing wrong. did i just buy a 12,000 dollar pos or what.

[Stevenc150]

I also have a 09' xb12scg an it has the same hiccup. This only occurs when leaving from a light between 1500 to 2000 rpm.Try the Breather Re-route w/ Pics Thread (http://www.buellxb.com/Buell-XB-Forum/Do-It-Yourself-Buell-Mods/How-To-Crank-Case-Breather-Mod-with-pics), it should help somewhat in the lower RPM's you described. Also, if it's not made it through the Break-in period, things should get better the more you ride.

[gbalias]

has anyone whos complaining of this issue datalogged and actually SEEN what the bike is doing? or is everyone going by the feeling in your butt?

we can all suggest things to look for, but i think a good place to start is with a log....reproduce the symptom, then watch all the sensors to see if theres any erratic behavior. ..less the 02 of course. its too slow anyways.

[djwyck]

I did the the datalogging and tunned it but I still cannot fix the problem. It is hard to tell what is wrong by looking at the data in Megalog, everything looks ok, it is just that it wants to die when you hit the throttle off the line.

[EuropaChris]

I've been having some weird similar issues with my '06 XB12Ss. In my case, it only seems to be when the engine gets hot from a lot of low speed, in town traffic riding. Usually about the time the fan kicks on the bike will start running "funny".

In my case, it is not a miss or stumble, and it idles fine. But, all of a sudden it will start to vibrate a little more and sound like it changed itself to a different cylinder angle - the "sound" and "note" of the engine changes - both cylinders are firing, but maybe like one is only doing half the job. I can shut it off and restart with no change. Only if I ride at speed for a while does it regain "normal" operation (or shut it off long enough to cool down).

I've run some SeaFoam through it which didn't help, but I would think fuel system problems would be constant. I tore into it last night to check the "77" connector for issues and it was fine. Plugs are relatively new Iridiums. I'll check the TPS and reset this weekend, but I did find something interesting. I was checking the plug wires to make sure they were seated and when I removed the rear plug wire, a PILE of rust fell out of the plug boot!![confused]. The front plug was fine. I pulled the boot off the wire and the plug terminal was completely corroded.

Now, this bike lives in a garage, isn't ridden in the rain, and I don't get water up under there when I wash it. Even if it got wet, the heat from one ride would cook off any moisture. So, why else would it be rusty? I'm wondering if the terminal had a bad connection from when I replaced the plugs two seasons ago (about 4000 miles) and was arcing slightly all the time? Arcing = ozone and maybe creates other corrosive things? So finally the terminal rusts up enough to where when the engine gets hot enough it starts missing or firing incompletely, throwing off the O2 sensor which throws off the rest of the tuning thinking it's running too rich or too lean.

I'll find myself a new set of wires and see what happens. I was able to kinda clean up the terminal somewhat enough to try it out tonight and hopefully carry me over until I can find some wires - this weekend is supposed to be spectacular.

If not plug wire related, I was thinking along the lines of a sticking valve when the heads got hot, but it seems too consistent for that. A mystery......

[EuropaChris]

Update: I converted my ECMSpy cable from the Sony Clie (R.I.P.) connector to serial for my laptop and reset the TPS just for good measure. I started it up and it ran like total poop! [confused] Real uneven idle and then it would just die. Ruh-rohh. I tried the TPS reset again with very small improvement. I think I had the idle set too high after the reset, too. I checked over everything again and reset the TPS one more time with less initial idle setting. Success! Went out for a ride and it ran pretty normally.

This morning I reset the TPS yet again, this time making sure to hold the throttle forcibly closed with the twist grip. That helped even more, and now it runs smoother than I can remember in a long while. I've still got the bad plug wires on it (cleaned up as best I could) and a new set is on order.

I never realized the TPS zero point would be so critical and finicky!

[onelogue]

Changing plugs is huge too!

[etna2004]

have a 09 'XB9SX, with the same problems, and did the logging, and between 3k and 4k in hard acceleration (WOT) it cuts the fuel , and look what pw2 WOT (the only problems I found), Would anyone have it any ideas thanks , because I was in various dealers and do not resolve.http://www.buellxb.com/buell_images/3005_20101115220102_L.jpg

[bobaganoosh]

they all sputter. u will never completely get rid of it without a remap or ebr ecm

[etna2004]

Ok, but I had remap the ECM with ECMSPY and MLV, the bike is completely stock (2400 miles) and I did re-route breather and not improved, the new maps are nice,the idle is fine, light and medium acceleration, the response is very good from low to high speed. AFV always close to 100, but as the graph shows, on hard acceleration, from 1st to 2nd gear, the WOT is a lean, and decreases the pulse width of the injector. Is this normal or an ECM error ?

[bobaganoosh]

all i know is with my race map, pipe and K&n it still studders some around 1500-3500 and it got a little hiccup off the line. its not that bad though. i just learned to live with it. im pretty sure your never gonna get rid of the stumbleing its just a buell thing

[Alexrz5]

Hey Guys,

My story is similar, I have a XB12r, after I ride for about a good hour when the bike is nice and hot. my bikes idles high, up around the 2rpm range. The only way I can lower the idle is when I drop back in to first gear, my other issue this happened to me yesterday, I was riding on the highway trying to pass car so I picked up more speed and then it started to putter. so then I pulled over revved it to see what it would do, when I revved it pass 5rpms it would putter with a pop. But the motor is strong. it doesn't knock or have any other sound. it runs fine, just when I rev it pass 5rpms its putter and pops any ideas?