Open Air Box ECM Mapping

[RidetheLightning]

I bought an XB12SCG with Jardine, K&N, and open airox, and go a buelltooth dongle to run any diagnostics and TPS resets. I don't really want to mess with the maps as long as it's running well, but I was thinking of saving down the current map, and loading Buelltooth's on just to see if there's a difference. My question is whether the open air box mod will throw things off, since their website says all maps assume a high flow filter, but do not mention any other mods. Could I hurt anything?

[Cooter]

I've been known to poke a bear or two, but really... If it runs well, why mess with it?

Open air box shouldn't change the fueling requirements enough that the ECM can't compensate for that.

BUT most of the current Buelltooth maps are open loop and lock the AFV to 100 negating the ability for the ECM to compensate... so....

[tleighbell]

Hey Cooter, sorry for hijacking the thread, and to continue from your comment on the Uly page, why would the maps disable closed loop, and how do you enable it so that the ECM can compensate for varying fuel needs?

[RidetheLightning]

Hey Cooter, sorry for hijacking the thread, and to continue from your comment on the Uly page, why would the maps disable closed loop, and how do you enable it so that the ECM can compensate for varying fuel needs?

Actually I need to understand more about the closed/open loop stuff. I knew it allowed the ECM to compensate, and that disabling it keeps the ECM from "hiding" issues as Buelltooth puts it, but it seems more oriented to people with more time than myself to dedicate to tuning. As long as it runs well and isn't hurting anything I'm good. That being said, I believe the map does not change closed/open settings unless you go in manually.

[Cooter]

It is their theory to set the fuel mapping a little rich for power, and add and enable a Baro sensor for altitude enrichment because the ECM is no longer referencing the O2 for rich/lean adjustments and has no longer has any idea what it's putting out.

Because the map targets are set slightly rich for power, they have to disable Closed Loop so the ECM won't read the O2 sensor and just lean it back out in CL, and then lock the AFV to 100 so the ECM can't add a negative correction factor to the fuel map and lean it back out in OL.

You can re-enable Closed Loop with any of the tuning programs, You'll find it in ECMDroid on your parameters page, and loosen up the AFV limits so the ECM can adjust for stoic operation in CL. Personally I set them at 90-110. I feel this allows 20% of adjustment range to a good fuel map and will still leave clues if theres an issue like a intake leak, but not so much that the bike will run super crappy if the map is wonky.

I don't know what will happen if you make these changes to their map that they meant to run in OL only.

In stock form. When you whack open the throttle, the ECM goes to Open Loop and references the Fuel map directly so you can have a rich mixture for power. Thats why you want an appropriate map for the intake and exhaust on your bike. The fuel map in the ECM needs to be set for what the bike likes at WFO with those mods.

When you are cruising and don't need the power, the ECM goes into Closed Loop, reads the O2 sensor to see if it's rich or lean (which is why you don't need a Baro sensor to adjust for altitude in this configuration) and sets the mixture to it's stoic target because you want the most efficient, clean, and economical running for the 90% of the time you are riding normally.

Warning! The above is super oversimplified and meant for basic understanding of the process. You could nit-pick most of it.

[Silverrider]

^^ this why I have IDS do all my ECM programing .:cool:

[Cooter]

Any of you carburetor guys? Imagine...

You are idling or just cruising (Closed Loop) in your El Camino with a PBR in your hand and a PitBull in the bed, headed to a family reunion in the park. You have a gas analyser in the tail pipe (O2 sensor) and a gauge on the dash so as you're driving, you can see what the engine is putting out, and you constantly twist the idle mix screws, and change the size of the low speed jets for the smoothest running, cleanest tailpipe emissions.

You also have a way to slightly modify the size of the main jets (an 'AFV' knob if you will) if you continue to read a constant state of rich or lean on your dash gauge.

When you stab the gas (Open Loop) for the sick burn-out thats sure to turn on your hot cousin and get you a date with her tonight, You will ignore your dash gauge (O2 sensor) because, of course, it will read super rich. BUT! the bad boy El Co still runs well because its all stock so the factory put in the right accelerator pump, power valve, and main jet size, for the best power when they built the car and dyno tested it (OEM fuel map, targets).

If you get back to the farm and put on a killer new set of Flowmasters and a big honkin camshaft, your dash knob won't adjust enough for those modifications so, you need to install a bigger power valve, accel pump, and main jets (fuel map).

But you have no dyno on the farm, so how do you know what parts to install in your carb?

Either have a pro do it for you (IDS El Camino tuning shop)... OR because Bubba and all his buddies have done the same mods to their El Caminos. (K&N, Race muffler....)

You can confidently know you are very close to the right combo by using Bubbas advise (fuel map) because he tested his. NO need to test and tune yourself, just install the same thing Bubba did (fuel map for the same mods).

Have fun with Sha-nay-nay on your date tonight!

[Chicknstripn]

Oh shucks!

Ich!

That old scoundrel

[tleighbell]

thanks again Cooter. Very informative (and entertaining) as usual.

[rb70383]

Any of you carburetor guys? Imagine...


:eagerness:

Nope. Totally wrong. I don't have a power valve in the Edelbrock reboot of the Carter carbs....:black_eyed:
Be careful with carburetors, I'm starting to meet people that have never driven a carb'd vehicle before. Wont been soon before you try to use that example, and then the next 3 pages will be us trying to explain how a carb works, and how its similar to efi....


When I switched my airbox to a more open one, the AFV moved a tiny amount. maybe a point. However after the muffler and airbox, yea, my map is a little off but runs decent. AFV, and now, a little surging.
Never a fan of disabling all the adjustment features. Turns the ECM into digital carburetor.

[Cooter]

"Never a fan of disabling all the adjustment features. Turns the ECM into digital carburetor."

I agree 100%:up:

Ya you're right RB, the Edelbrocks have twin metering rods (like a Q-jet) but the Edlebrocks are vacuum controlled like a power valve, and not secondary upper butterfly controlled like a Q-jet.

Carburators, manual transmissions, and crank windows FTW! I like spokes and kick starts too:)

[rb70383]

"Never a fan of disabling all the adjustment features. Turns the ECM into digital carburetor."

I agree 100%:up:

Ya you're right RB, the Edelbrocks have twin metering rods (like a Q-jet) but the Edlebrocks are vacuum controlled like a power valve, and not secondary upper butterfly controlled like a Q-jet.

Carburators, manual transmissions, and crank windows FTW! I like spokes and kick starts too:)



Don't forget vent windows!!

[Cooter]

Crank, vent, windows:excitement: Ahhh, the soothing 110dB whistle of a vent window at 65mph, love it!

[Nade]

Crank, vent, windows:excitement: Ahhh, the soothing 110dB whistle of a vent window at 65mph, love it!

I haven't been around in maybe 12 months but its nice to see the same thread hijacking and shenanigans is still alive, combined with useful relevant information!!

[Cooter]

This thread is 16 months old so...

Yep, you're still right! LOL:black_eyed:

[RidetheLightning]

For the record, the map worked great, and I've left it alone since loading it.