AFV, EGO issue

[oneighty]

Alright, I've done a lot of reading on this site and now it's my turn to ask for a little help. Here are all the details leading up to my issue.

Purchased 2003 XB9S about 6 months ago. The only engine related modification was a K&N in the factory airbox. Seemed to run fine the first few months. About a month ago I sent my muffler out to Randy and had him do his thing. He said not to worry about a tune as the computer would compensate. While I know that's true to a point I still planned to tune it eventually.

Within the next week I ended up meeting another member of the board in person and he also has a 2003 XB9S. Come to find out he has a Hawk muffler on his bike as well and also has Buelltooth and the 2003 race map file for it. So we flashed the race map to my bike and did the TPS reset. Rode the bike home that night and it felt great. Much better than prior to the tune.

Instead of leaving well enough alone I decided I needed to do the breather reroute and at the same time did the open airbox mod with the funneled 12 lid. I hear nothing but good things about both.

After making those changes I performed the following tasks with ECMDroid: reflashed race map (side note* for some reason the file I have has the key on fan limits switched with an on temp of 180 and off temp of 220, obviously backwards) swapped fan values, set AFV to 100, reflashed, set TPS. Test ride! Unfortunately the bike felt dog slow and had a huge hesitation so I redid the TPS reset a few times with no luck.

I then went on a long ride and about 20 miles and the bike started to feel much better. Pulled over and checked some things out and the AFV was at 140%! I decided to replace the factory airbox cover in an attempt to richen things up a bit. It worked. After another 20 miles ride I had an AFV of 130%. Still insane, but better.

The funny part is that the EGO seems to match the AFV at all times and I don't think that's right. I pulled the airbox and noticed the nipple on the throttle body was open so I capped that, but I've read that it's common to be uncovered. I made sure the velocity stack was seated well and the lower airbox cover was all sealed up.

I'm not sure where to go from here, but I think there is an underlying issue besides just tuning.

Thank in advance, any help is appreciated.

PS: I am borrowing Buelltooth from a friend right now and have access to ECMDroid for providing information. I also have access to ECMSpy, 1.12.17, but can't get it to connect to the bike with the Buelltooth adapter for some reason. All of the readily available maps seem to be for ECMSpy so I was trying that route in case the xps race map I have is bad. Can't find any other maps in xps format for ECMDroid.

 

[oneighty]

bump. still looking for some input...

 

[Cooter]

AFV at 130-140 is trying to drastically richen the bike. A muffler and airbox change won't require the 30-40%(!!) more fuel to make it run.

So you only rode it home after the initial race map flash and it ran well. About how many miles? Did you re-set the AFV at that point? What was the AFV before the initial flash?
I'm trying to see if there was a problem before all this (that was masked by the AFV at 130-140 on the stock tune). If you re-flash your stock tune on it, how does it run?

The breather re-route and airbox mod will help intake flow but not that drastically to cause that big a correction. I wouldn't keep messing with the tuning until you eliminate all other problems.

I believe theres a problem elsewhere, like leaking intake seals. Theres youtube vids on it, easy to check.

PM TPEHAK. He can stress analyze the surface tension variance of the durometers on colors of rubber for you.:angel:

 

[user_deleted]

^^^^^ shaughn: would a failing fuel pump cause all this commotion and extraordinarly high AFV values? thinking you or cole or gunter would know. just a thought.

 

[TPEHAK]

Clean or replace air filter. Perform injectors leak test according service manual. Replace O2 sensor.

 

[Cooter]

It's possible Lunatic. Anything causing a lean condition, too much air is the same as not enough fuel. The FP would have to have a pretty consistent restriction or really low pressure, but I would think the differing demands of the engine would show a fuel pump issue in other ways. Clogged injectors could do it too, but they would be so bad that even the mighty Seafoam couldn't clean them! PM TPEHAK about the virtues of that stuff

I really think Oneighty had a problem with the bike before the intake change he did, and setting the AFV back to 100 made it show up in rideability. The ECM Perameters (like AFV) are independent of the fuel map. But they do transfer over with the new fuel map file in ECMDroid.

So, a note to everyone changing fuel maps around! After you burn the file, go into the ECM parameters and set them where you like them! This includes fan settings, quick shifter enable (DDFI-3), O2 settings, AFV....

Oneighty, I forgot to mention, it says right on the Buelltooth site if you buy a dongle they will help you out with the free map you need. Not everything is linked on their site. I still don't think you have a tuning issue, but you know you need the dongle for diagnosis so....:angel:

 

[tommyramone55]

Following here I have similar issues.....

But AFV was set to only 100% old map had the rear cylinder cut way down for whatever reason....

 

[tokinbuller]

Flash your stock map back to the bike, reset AFV, and TPS and ride for at least 30 miles. And re-check your AFV values. As stated above, did you know your values prior to adding these mods? Its possible your buddys map is bad. If you can do a data log too, that would help point somethings out as well.

I had trouble connecting the dongle to ECMspy as well, i had to use the "auto-detect" feature, and even then, i had to try like 5 times or so before it would connect. Really annoying.

 

[TPEHAK]

Pair your buelltoot with ECM Droid prior starting the engine. Working motor generates EMP and disturbs Bluetooth pairing process.

 

[oneighty]

About how many miles? Did you re-set the AFV at that point? What was the AFV before the initial flash?
I'm trying to see if there was a problem before all this (that was masked by the AFV at 130-140 on the stock tune). If you re-flash your stock tune on it, how does it run?

I believe theres a problem elsewhere, like leaking intake seals. Theres youtube vids on it, easy to check.

I rode about 30 miles. The AFV was set with the tune to 105ish. Unfortunately, I did not check it prior to the flash. A reflash of the stock tune still runs poorly until it starts learning again.
I figured there was another problem. I tested the intake seals by shooting propane around the area and didn't notice a change in RPM.

Clean or replace air filter. Perform injectors leak test according service manual. Replace O2 sensor.

Filter is clean and good. I will look into the injector leak test tonight. I monitored the O2 sensor with ECM Droid and it seems to be responding as is should. Could it still be bad?

Flash your stock map back to the bike, reset AFV, and TPS and ride for at least 30 miles. And re-check your AFV values.

I have done this and each time it creeps back up to the 130-140 range.

 

[Cooter]

Remember the AFV is different from the 'tune'. The AFV you got with the tune (105) wasn't set by the tune at all, it was a carry-over ECM parameter from the bike the tune was taken off from.

See if this makes sense. Since the donor bike that the tune came from didn't have an issue, it would make sense that the AFV would be in the 95-105 range. You're bike has an AFV of 130-140 (not the tune, the bike). So any tune you try to put on it will run poorly until the ECM can learn that you're bike has an issue requiring MUCH more fuel than the tune is programmed for.

What's the issue? We don't know yet.

"I monitored the O2 sensor with ECM Droid and it seems to be responding as is should. Could it still be bad?
"
That depends on what reading you got exactly. What were they?

I am very surprised there isn't an intake leak. Sometimes carb cleaner aerosol is easier to spray in there and see where it's going vs. propane gas.

 

[TPEHAK]

Here is leakage test