Buell Engine Noise - After replacing Rocker Cover Gaskets

[pdksh]

OK just replaced my Rocker Cover Gaskets with a kit from James Original off of Ebay. It was a big job, rotating the engine, after stripping off almost every thing. I followed this forum and the service manual. No surprises. The rear rocker cover gasket (thick orange gasket) was flush with the top of the rocker box, obviously the source of the leak. I also changed the intake gaskets based on recommendations. I was hoping that would help out the 2000 rpm flat spot.

While the bike was apart I also installed the comfort kit and a new belt. The new belt is $*@*@!&&)!#)!$ tight.

I touched the starter button and after a couple seconds of cranking it fired up, initially ran a little rough but I suspect it was cold and the ECM needed to start to re-learn. I took the bike out for a couple of good honks, bike runs fine, idles fine and starts without any issue. Clutch and shifting is fine.

Bike has 12,000MI and had a full oil change with MOTOUL 20/50 synthetic this spring.

The Problems... Keep in mind I haven't rode the bike for a month (waiting for parts, etc, etc)
1) The clutch leaver had no slack in it at all. Normally a clutch leaver has 1mm to 2mm of play in the leaver. The clutch worked fine. I loosened the clutch cable a turn or two and put about 1mm of play in the leaver.

2) The engine was a little rattly noisy. I checked the primary chain adjustment. Close to 3/4 of an inch play cold. I adjusted it to 3/8 of an inch cold. That seems to have cleared up the rattle.

3) The issue! Now I don't know if its in my head but I don't remember this sound before I did the rocker cover gaskets, mind you I wasn't listening or I would have noticed the loose primary chain. The engine makes a whining noise. It was making that noise before I tightened the chain. If the bike had chain or gear driven cams I would assume the cam chain or valve train for the noise. The noise happens at idle, revving, stopped in neutral or in gear, with the clutch in or out. It happens when riding, but you can only hear the noise at slow speed because its quieter than the wind noise.
Like I said, if this was an overhead cam bike I would assume it was the cam and valve train.

I did pull out one or two push rods when I had the bike apart (I can't help my self, I always have to push the red button) but they went back in and after rotating the engine to find the sweet spot with the push rods in the lower position before assembly, every thing seemed to move freely and the push rods all moved the same amount. I do not believe I had an unseated push rod. When I put the rocker box assembly on I tried very hard to turn each bold a 1/4 turn at a time to ensure the rocker boxes seated correctly.

Is it possible I have a push rod out of place?
Is it normal for the buell engine to have a small whine?
Is it possible that the tight belt is putting pressure on an output shaft that is causing a bearing to whine a little?
Is it possible that I have lost my mind and should ride it like I stole it?

In my defense this is the first buell I have ever ridden and the second Ully I have ever seen outside of the show room. For some reason the Buells were never that popular in my area so I need to use you guys (and gales) for everything Buell.

Thank You in Advance. The advice from this site has made me UBBER confident in my Buell.

 

[lowkey]

If you can try to capture the audio at idle it would help with diagnoses. A good trick is to pick up a stethoscope cheap and follow around the engine to try and pinpoint where it's coming from.

 

[rchuff]

By what you are saying it sounds like you are hearing airbox noise (whining). Normal ( has a gear drive kinda sound). You hear it more when your body is over the airbox vs off the bike to the side.

 

[njloco]

A good piece of a wooded broom handle (round end to ear) also works if you can't get a stethoscope. Air box noise as rchuff suggests sounds right. If the push rod was out of place, I'm pretty sure you would have a lot more noise than that if the bike ran at all.

Also, what you describe sounds like a bearing noise so, it could be that the clutch is out of adjustment due to the cable being routed wrong or hung up, as you did say you had to adjust it. Try adjusting it the specified way and see what happens.

 

[Chicknstripn]

I would check that your intake snorkle is properly seated in the airbox base. It's not the easiest thing to install but with the help of a large flat(and blunt) screw driver I usually get it seated quite quickly.

 

[user_deleted]

1-carlos and ricky spot on with possibilities plus a few tips/suggestions on my part.
2-the air horn is the large rubber connector that attaches your airbox base plate to the TB(throttle body assembly). it MUST be perfectly seated onto the TB then secured with the factory spring clamp....and must be seated properly in the base plate. without both you'll incur not only performance issues but odd air intake noises including "whistling" noises.
3-some XB's with vented airbox covers "whine" on the throttle....some don't. never figured out why.
4-some XB's "whine" from the primary side of the motor assy. after a chain adjustment....others do not. again never figured out why.
5-if you had a pushrod "out of place" that pushrod would fail to operate its valve properly and the motor would barely start...if at all.
6-there are tons of what i call "throttle mechanics" and "beating on it to solve it" idiots afleet. your comment "ride it like i stoled it" typically falls into the latter. if in fact you do have a problem pounding unmercifully on the poor thing solves nothing....it only exacerbates the problem.
7-this was bantered around during a site keyboard rumble last week initiated by some FNG named rockdog something-or-other. RUN IN the belt. they are NOT pre-stretched from the manufacturer. only takes a few minutes...seats it fully....stretches it properly....lessens the horrific load on driveline bearings.

 

[TheycallmeSpaz]

1-carlos and ricky spot on with possibilities plus a few tips/suggestions on my part.
2-the air horn is the large rubber connector that attaches your airbox base plate to the TB(throttle body assembly). it MUST be perfectly seated onto the TB then secured with the factory spring clamp....and must be seated properly in the base plate. without both you'll incur not only performance issues but odd air intake noises including "whistling" noises.
3-some XB's with vented airbox covers "whine" on the throttle....some don't. never figured out why.
4-some XB's "whine" from the primary side of the motor assy. after a chain adjustment....others do not. again never figured out why.
5-if you had a pushrod "out of place" that pushrod would fail to operate its valve properly and the motor would barely start...if at all.
6-there are tons of what i call "throttle mechanics" and "beating on it to solve it" idiots afleet. your comment "ride it like i stoled it" typically falls into the latter. if in fact you do have a problem pounding unmercifully on the poor thing solves nothing....it only exacerbates the problem.
7-this was bantered around during a site keyboard rumble last week initiated by some FNG named rockdog something-or-other. RUN IN the belt. they are NOT pre-stretched from the manufacturer. only takes a few minutes...seats it fully....stretches it properly....lessens the horrific load on driveline bearings.

What are the steps in doing this properly?

 

[user_deleted]

^^^ ^^^ not mentioned in any manual or TSB but always recommended by the belt manufacturers who clearly know what's best for their products. and it goes like this:
1- with new belt installed ride gently for a mile or so and find a stretch of unencumbered fairly flat road.
2-on an XB using 2nd OR 3rd gear....whatever gearing works best for the stretch of road that you're on...run that gear from approx. 2500rpm to approx. 5000rpm at 2/3rd's throttle......chop the throttle....let the bike return down to approx. 2500rpm....then accelerate again. doing this 4-5 times in a row sets the belt tension, runs it in, and stretches to correct service tension.
that's the best i can describe it.

 

[Cooter]

Do that^^^

Similar to breaking in anything. Start easy and build up to harder use. Common sense I thought:black_eyed:

 

[34nineteen]

I did pull out one or two push rods when I had the bike apart (I can't help my self, I always have to push the red button) but they went back in and after rotating the engine to find the sweet spot with the push rods in the lower position before assembly, every thing seemed to move freely and the push rods all moved the same amount. I do not believe I had an unseated push rod. When I put the rocker box assembly on I tried very hard to turn each bold a 1/4 turn at a time to ensure the rocker boxes seated correctly.

Is it possible I have a push rod out of place?

I sure hope not! The intake and exhaust pushrods are slightly different lengths. (10.726 intake / 10.780 exhaust). You may have put the intake pushrod on the exhaust side and vice versa. The difference is hard to notice if you're not looking for it, however this would also explain the rough running as the valves would be acting differently. The pushrods are also color coded (intake - orange / exhaust - pink). Hopefully, this isnt your problem (or I know what you are doing this weekend) :upset:

 

[pdksh]

Thankfully I didn't mix the push rods. I'm going to adjust the clutch and primary chain as per the service manual. The whine and now rattling is making me nervous. I'm going to pick up a thesiscope and try to verify where the rattle and whine is coming from.

. I'm not a fan of the Throttle Mechanic, my comment was me asking if anyone thought I really had a problem. Years ago a friend asked if i thought his clutch was slipping in a ford escort. Well a couple of brake torques later and we were changing that clutch. Lesson learned. Problems seldom get better with age

 

[lowkey]

pdksh, I'm sure you've read over the service manual and see that you must find the tightest spot in the chain and from there put the tension on the loose end of the book specification. I've read quite a few posts on getting a "whine" after adjusting the primary within proper range. If you know you adjusted it within range, I'd just back it off a hair and see if it quiets up. Also have a look and double check the primary fluid level is good, maybe before even doing any adjustments.

Is this bike new to you? Sorry if you already said it is or isn't, I can't keep up with all the threads going on but the buell engines are quite noisy! The rattle may be from the engine rotation you just performed, go through and double check everything, you may have forgotten to torque something down.

 

[pdksh]

I adjusted the primary chain to have about 3/8 of an inch cold and about 1/4 inch hot. The rattling noise is coming from the primary side.



I took off the primary drive cover, after I dropped the clutch cable retaining clip into the primary drive. I was adjusting the clutch cable when I decided to fully examine the clutch. See my earlier post about not being able to NOT press the red button!

The inside of the primary drive case is clean, perfect, no scrapes, not fillings no rub marks by the primary chain. The primary chain adjuster looks like new. When I try to adjust the primary chain by "ear" as its running, I can turn the adjuster by my finger till the noise stops but the primary chain cold has about 1/2 inch play. I suspect some noise is coming from the slop of the clutch basket.

Does the clutch basket slop look normal? it's a tiny amount of play but normally a clutch has "springs" that keep the tension in the basket. My experience is from working on Japanese bikes and Ducati's. Needless to say this push rod engine is presenting some interesting challenges. If this is normal play for the clutch basket, its no surprise to me that an improperly adjusted primary chain would cause shifting issues.

Torque wise everything is tight, noise is coming from the bottom end. I suspect the initial whine & wherling sound was "normal".

 

[TheycallmeSpaz]

^^^ ^^^ not mentioned in any manual or TSB but always recommended by the belt manufacturers who clearly know what's best for their products. and it goes like this:
1- with new belt installed ride gently for a mile or so and find a stretch of unencumbered fairly flat road.
2-on an XB using 2nd OR 3rd gear....whatever gearing works best for the stretch of road that you're on...run that gear from approx. 2500rpm to approx. 5000rpm at 2/3rd's throttle......chop the throttle....let the bike return down to approx. 2500rpm....then accelerate again. doing this 4-5 times in a row sets the belt tension, runs it in, and stretches to correct service tension.
that's the best i can describe it.

Makes good sense, thank you for this flick of wisdom sir. My belt is showing small cracks no the outer face when looking closely... looks to be original. Swapping this weekend, so I will definitely do this "RUN IN".

 

[TPEHAK]

According the video there is no unusual noises.

Mine clutch basket has same freeplay, even after replacing clutch basket bearing, so it looks OK too

 

[pdksh]

YEP the play in my clutch basket is the EXACT SAME! thank you. I was about to tear my clutch apart, looking for a bad bearing. Not starting a "FLAME WAR" - BUT! These 50 year old engines are very interesting for a Ducati/Yamaha rider. I have a VRSCR with the V-ROD Evolution motor so I KNOW Harley can build a tight engine. I had to have a BUELL, and I wanted an air-cooled EVO motor, I never could get over the odd fairing of the 1125R. This has been an excellent learning experience.

I know I said no more HD - Stealers... I need a primary cover gasket so I looked up the part number, went to a dealer that back in the day sold BUELLs and asked for a primary cover gasket for my bike. He went into the back room and came out with a primary cover for a 2004+ 1200 sportster. NOPE IT DONT FIT! From now own its Lance and St. Paul! ARG!

Has anyone tried to use the "gasket in a tube" stuff. My Ducati actually does not have side cover gaskets, it uses "gasket in the tube". I was going to try to re-use the side cover (yes I know, I know) and if that leaks I'm going to try the $30.00 dollar stuff I got at the Ducati stealership!

THANKS AGAIN GUYS!

 

[pdksh]

DO NOT USE GASKET IN A TUBE for the primary cover of a BUEL. I just spent an hour + cleaning up my primary cover and engine. I assembled the primary cover with "gasket in a tube" without any leaks. I adjusted the clutch and primary. Took the girl for a ride. It was shifting terribly. I could go from 1st to 2nd but the jump to 3rd/4th/5th was nearly impossible. I figured I had the primary chain too loose, it definitely wasn't tight. The issue wasn't the primary chain tension. The issue was the clearance between the primary cover and the shifter input shaft. The shifter shaft was binding the internal plastic bushing of the primary cover. I just re-used my old gasket because the HD stealer gave me the wrong gasket.

NOTE!

A 2004+ sportster evo primary cover gasket won't fit. Just ask me how I know.

The bike is shifting fine and so far no oil leaks. I will be ordering a new gasket from e-bay/st. paul

 

[34nineteen]

Yep. I've used gasket sealer (GM - "GMS") to help seal up a questionable/used primary cover gasket on my Buells, but not as a substitute for the gasket itself. I've had GMS seal up things that would/could never seal up before. GMS is some magic stuff.

Anyhow, your best bet is for the original item. There are a lot of parts similar, but not the same between a XB and a Sporty. There is a video on youtube where they call out the unique XB parts. I think its called "Buell engines: a training film" or something like that.

It took me awhile to get used to the look of the 1125R/CR, but once I picked up a taste for it, I really like it. There was an accessory fairing sold by Buell, that looks more like a "conventional sportbike", and while I've seen pics of it on the R, I've wondered what it would look like on a CR.