Ecm
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Those numbers really don’t mean anything to us.
1. Is yours and the one your buying ddfi2 or ddfi3? Compare the number of pins in the socket
2. if no- find another. If yes move to step 3
3. Get a device like a Buelltooth from rev mo or a cable and plug into an android device running ecmdroid (free download) and compare the firmware code on both ecms
4. Is it the same? If yes move to step 5. If no you may have to find a harley dealer (likely one that once sold buell) and see if they can reflash the firmware.
5. Upload a tune from rev mo (if you bought a Buelltooth from them) or maybe there is one on buellmods.com
6. Hope and pray that you were correct about the ecm or you just spent a lot of time and money for nothing.
Being that you don’t mention pulling any codes from the ecm. How do you know it’s the ecm? Maybe it has a dead battery? Is it out of gas?
1. Is yours and the one your buying ddfi2 or ddfi3? Compare the number of pins in the socket
2. if no- find another. If yes move to step 3
3. Get a device like a Buelltooth from rev mo or a cable and plug into an android device running ecmdroid (free download) and compare the firmware code on both ecms
4. Is it the same? If yes move to step 5. If no you may have to find a harley dealer (likely one that once sold buell) and see if they can reflash the firmware.
5. Upload a tune from rev mo (if you bought a Buelltooth from them) or maybe there is one on buellmods.com
6. Hope and pray that you were correct about the ecm or you just spent a lot of time and money for nothing.
Being that you don’t mention pulling any codes from the ecm. How do you know it’s the ecm? Maybe it has a dead battery? Is it out of gas?
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This guy ain't as dumb as he looks ^^^^^:angel: Especially the part about diagnosing the problem before you randomly throw parts at it. ECM's are hardy units and RARELY go bad*. A no-start condition should be easy to diagnose and this time of year we see a ton of bikes that crank over fine but won't start because the plugs are fouled. Plugs are cheaper than a ECM that you didn't need.
What he's saying is... All Buell ECM's are interchangeable within the DDFI-1(Tuber), 2 (XB '03-'07) ,3 (XB and 1125 '08-'10). It is the fuel map inside it that matters for your specific bike, and theres no way to know if the map on the ebay thing you found matches your bike or is even stock. Also the ECM Firmware version must match the fuel map you want to use. BUE-2D is the latest and most common.
Alternatively, http://idspd.com/xcart/?target=main will sell you a plug n play ECM with whatever map you want already on it. Heck, I have a bunch of ECM's I could throw a program on one and sent it to you... if that guy ^^^^ would ever return my ECMDroid!
*Since you have a Uly, check for physical damage to your ECM. There is a relocating bracket available. Some combinations of Uly, short legs and big belly on a low seat can put pressure on the ECM and physically crack it. That would be one of the rare reasons to change it.
What he's saying is... All Buell ECM's are interchangeable within the DDFI-1(Tuber), 2 (XB '03-'07) ,3 (XB and 1125 '08-'10). It is the fuel map inside it that matters for your specific bike, and theres no way to know if the map on the ebay thing you found matches your bike or is even stock. Also the ECM Firmware version must match the fuel map you want to use. BUE-2D is the latest and most common.
Alternatively, http://idspd.com/xcart/?target=main will sell you a plug n play ECM with whatever map you want already on it. Heck, I have a bunch of ECM's I could throw a program on one and sent it to you... if that guy ^^^^ would ever return my ECMDroid!
*Since you have a Uly, check for physical damage to your ECM. There is a relocating bracket available. Some combinations of Uly, short legs and big belly on a low seat can put pressure on the ECM and physically crack it. That would be one of the rare reasons to change it.
Finders keepers!
Thanks for your replies , my ecm has two 12 pin plugs and a single spade in between .I got the bike a couple of weeks ago running badly .There was a blink code for front fuel injector so I took both injectors out and sent them for cleaning and flow checking .While they were away I went through the engine wiring , found a Remus poweriser which was no longer connected to the injectors but was still spliced in to the throttle pot signal wire so mister Remus went in the bin . The starter was also cranking very slowly which was a bad battery earth cable so I made a new one which went all the way to the top engine steady strut and it cranks a lot better now .I also had a look at the ignition ,spark plugs looked brand new and under cranking they were sparking but only weakly ,got the oscilloscope out and found the coil primaries had a nice clean current ramp but a strange voltage pattern in that the dwell was fine and a good high clean induced voltage line but then no burn time and no coil oscillations and the same on both coil primaries , I haven't looked at coil secondary windings yet as I cant get my HT lead clamp in there , was going to try a magnetic coil-on-plug probe to see if that would pick up a signal , have also drained the tank and put fresh fuel in and I'm going to try a new pair of spark plugs.
I also don't like substitution diagnostics but I have seen ecm's get spiked by numpties with jump leads and with a bad earth cable that's a definite possibility and the poweriser was badly fitted with the splice on the throttle pot having cut the wire apart from a couple of strands .ECM's do go - I had to put one in my Ducati ST4 last year as it would not switch on the fuel pump relay.
So at the moment the jury is out on the ECM but it is suspect.
Martin
I also don't like substitution diagnostics but I have seen ecm's get spiked by numpties with jump leads and with a bad earth cable that's a definite possibility and the poweriser was badly fitted with the splice on the throttle pot having cut the wire apart from a couple of strands .ECM's do go - I had to put one in my Ducati ST4 last year as it would not switch on the fuel pump relay.
So at the moment the jury is out on the ECM but it is suspect.
Martin
I would start here. You’ve diagnosed a bad ground and put in a patch, rather than fix the issue. A bad ground can cause lots of weird issues. A bad ground can damage an ecm (or other components) and the new ones you put in. Cleaning your grounds is practically free and just requires time and effort and helps insure your electrical system has a sound foundation.
so if you put that wire on the correct grounding point on the chassis, do you still have issues
Moving the battery ground to the engine strut only isolated the problem. Did you pull the subframe and clean the interface where it bolts to the main frame/tank?
Moving the battery ground to the engine strut only isolated the problem. Did you pull the subframe and clean the interface where it bolts to the main frame/tank?
Wow, I just had a day dream of learning to use an oscilloscope in HS auto shop class! No kidding, what timing
If you have spark at both plugs, no need to keep checking that. Fuel, air spark/timing is all you need to run. Clean or replace the plugs while you're in there, well worth it and the NGK Iridiums are the go to around here.
You can check the timing under the riveted cover if you like. See if it came apart. Other than that IMO it's time to check fueling. Good job on tossing the funky add-on, nothing but trouble lurking in those and no need considering Buell ECM's have been jail-broken for a long time now.
Do what 34:19 suggested and download the free copy for ECMDroid, it needs a bluetooth signal from the bike (I like my Buelltooth dongle from Rev-mo.com). ECMDroid is a very valuable tool for sensor testing, datalogging, and even swapping tunes in.
IMO, it's time to check the fueling side of things.
If you have spark at both plugs, no need to keep checking that. Fuel, air spark/timing is all you need to run. Clean or replace the plugs while you're in there, well worth it and the NGK Iridiums are the go to around here.
You can check the timing under the riveted cover if you like. See if it came apart. Other than that IMO it's time to check fueling. Good job on tossing the funky add-on, nothing but trouble lurking in those and no need considering Buell ECM's have been jail-broken for a long time now.
Do what 34:19 suggested and download the free copy for ECMDroid, it needs a bluetooth signal from the bike (I like my Buelltooth dongle from Rev-mo.com). ECMDroid is a very valuable tool for sensor testing, datalogging, and even swapping tunes in.
IMO, it's time to check the fueling side of things.
“I’m pretty sure”
“I’m pretty sure the grounds and power aren’t the issue” sounds a lot like “I’m pretty sure it isn’t the coil”.
“I’m pretty sure the grounds and power aren’t the issue” sounds a lot like “I’m pretty sure it isn’t the coil”.
Good stuff guys and you are right that there is an issue with the electrical connection between the rear subframe and the main frame but only when you're putting 100cold cranking amps through it.The ECM is probably only pulling 300 milli amps and I have gone round the various consumers and measured the voltage drop on both the power and negative sides to see if there is a bad connection between them and the battery when they are powered up and the worst is less than half a volt .34nineteen might be right as both coils are similarly affected and that's getting a bit coincidental for me as the only common thing on the two coils is the power supply ,which is fine ,and the ECM. Separate spark plugs , HT leads , secondary windings and primary windings but the same weird primary voltage pattern and that is controlled by the ECM.
M
M
I wouldn't obsess over a weird primary signal with a oscilloscope, it isn't points opening and a condenser charging
The ECM gets its trigger signal for BOTH cylinders from one timing trigger (one wire), then it splits and times (in the ECM) for EACH cylinder (2 wires, one for each coil primary). Like I asked before, if you have spark... why are you still checking for spark?
The bike has a history of fuel issues, I'd look there. 49psi is spec and you can trigger injectors (and the coils) under tests in ECMDroid.
The ECM gets its trigger signal for BOTH cylinders from one timing trigger (one wire), then it splits and times (in the ECM) for EACH cylinder (2 wires, one for each coil primary). Like I asked before, if you have spark... why are you still checking for spark?
The bike has a history of fuel issues, I'd look there. 49psi is spec and you can trigger injectors (and the coils) under tests in ECMDroid.
Well it is true that I have not checked fuel pressure but the reason that I'm leaning to an ignition fault is that I can smell fuel in the exhaust and both plugs are wet , they are the standard 9E NGK's rather than the 9EIX iridiums but they should still fire up the motor ,
There seems to be a good signal from the cam sensor but is it properly timed to the cam .I had a non start Porsche 964 that also used a hall effect sensor but in the distributor rather than on the cam and the locating peg had sheared so whilst there was good signal from the hall sensor it was all over the place and that was easy to find as that engine also had a crank sensor so all you had to do was get both signals up on screen under cranking and you could see the dissy signal floating about , but does the Buell have anything that I can reference the cam signal to,
M
There seems to be a good signal from the cam sensor but is it properly timed to the cam .I had a non start Porsche 964 that also used a hall effect sensor but in the distributor rather than on the cam and the locating peg had sheared so whilst there was good signal from the hall sensor it was all over the place and that was easy to find as that engine also had a crank sensor so all you had to do was get both signals up on screen under cranking and you could see the dissy signal floating about , but does the Buell have anything that I can reference the cam signal to,
M
Ya wet plugs is a clue for sure. Does it spit/sputter/backfire? or just crank over? Buells foul plugs VERY easily and only a few repeated attempts to start will do it.
A static timing check is as easy as rotating to TDC and checking the reluctor on the timing wheel behind the riveted cover.
http://buellmods.com/#TabbedContent
A static timing check is as easy as rotating to TDC and checking the reluctor on the timing wheel behind the riveted cover.
http://buellmods.com/#TabbedContent
Found a TDC mark on the flywheel under a plug r/h side of engine and the cam sensor setting looks fine ,took the l/h side of the rear subframe off to clean up the earth points and it looks like it was sparking between the sheet steel battery holder and the alu side spar so that is now all good.
I'm waiting for a diagnostic cable to get here and then I'll have another crack at it , but I have too much paying work to do and I shouldn't really be messing with boys toys
Thanks for the ecm info and the link to IDS , it's good to know that this a programable ECM and that I can sort this fine looking motorcycle out.
M
I'm waiting for a diagnostic cable to get here and then I'll have another crack at it , but I have too much paying work to do and I shouldn't really be messing with boys toys
Thanks for the ecm info and the link to IDS , it's good to know that this a programable ECM and that I can sort this fine looking motorcycle out.
M
upaero
Well-known member
Before changing an ECM or any other part you really should do some simple diagnostics using a Buelltooth and Ecmdroid. If you do have to replace the ECM you're going to need them anyway to do a TPS reset. You can also test the spark plugs, injectors, and fuel pump. Like Cooter said, Uly's can be hard on ECMs but they usually "act up" before giving up the ghost. You could have a fuel pump problem or any number of things. Changing parts based on a hunch instead of data isn't cost effective. rev-mo.com/efitroubleshoot may help you.
upaero
Well-known member
If your ECM had the "Uly" problem you would see a laundry list of stored faults. Check your AFV which will tell you if the ECM has been compensating for low fuel pressure.
