Idle climbs in gear with clutch pulled?! Idle stable in neutral, however.

[s0dhi]

So this one has me completely baffled.

When in neutral the bike idles perfectly; however, in gear with the clutch pulled, the idle climbs to 1400-1800 rpm.

The bike is a 2009 XB9SX. Has a muller power clutch, exhaust and some light tuning recently (last couple of weeks). This issue hasn't been present until this weekend. I have done numerous TPS resets and adjusted the clutch a number of times but the issue persists. I have tried to check the intake seals, but there was no noticeable change in idle in neutral.

Any thoughts on directions to investigate? I must be missing something.

 

[user_deleted]

quirky neutral sensor switch and/or IAC unit.
neutral sensor switch behind front belt pulley at 4 o'clock position. i never precisely determined why but a faulty one will affect idle particularly on 08-10 models. with motor off....key on...red run switch on...bike in neutral....lightly feather shift lever. neutral light blink and act erratic? replace the sensor switch.

IAC unit: if it has worked itself loose from its housing you'll not only get a slight vacuum leak but erratic idle particularly in gear. servo unit probably ok but at the very least i would remove the entire air intake system MINUS the air horn...access the unit....remove and thoroughly clean both the pintel and the port it plugs into....then see what you have. use link below if this helps.


http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142838/634269.html

 

[s0dhi]

quirky neutral sensor switch and/or IAC unit.
neutral sensor switch behind front belt pulley at 4 o'clock position. i never precisely determined why but a faulty one will affect idle particularly on 08-10 models. with motor off....key on...red run switch on...bike in neutral....lightly feather shift lever. neutral light blink and act erratic? replace the sensor switch.

IAC unit: if it has worked itself loose from its housing you'll not only get a slight vacuum leak but erratic idle particularly in gear. servo unit probably ok but at the very least i would remove the entire air intake system MINUS the air horn...access the unit....remove and thoroughly clean both the pintel and the port it plugs into....then see what you have. use link below if this helps.


http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142838/634269.html

Thanks for direction, I will definitely check those 2 points out.

What I find odd is that it idles fine in neutral and only when it's put in gear, with the clutch pulled, do the revs climb up.

 

[s0dhi]

Neutral light is solid nothing interesting happening.

IAC was super tight but I removed it and cleaned both it and the housing. It took a few Q-tips soaked in cleaner to clean it up thoroughly. I pulled the fuel pump fuse and listened for the IAC motor and it was stepping as expected (I guess).

I also put together another ROM flash with the Idle Set Point map enabled and reduced the idle speed to 1000rpm. I'm not sure that this is strictly necessary, but there were quite a few threads advising a lower idle speed. Personally, I don't think this should be an issue, but it's worth testing/understanding in the post-exhaust, post-muller-power-clutch world.

I won't be able to start it up and test it until tomorrow.

 

[s0dhi]

I think I have it figured out.

It's a combination of the Muller Power Clutch, factory clutch lever and my fat gloved fingers. I did not have this issue with the Chinese levers and the Muller Power Clutch. I was able to 2-finger pull without issue. Having switched back to the stock lever, it appears that the 2-finger pull leaves the clutch right at the beginning of the release. If I pull the lever all the way to the grip it's fine - it just starts the release right before thickness of my fingers. So where I consider the clutch pulled in, it's actually loading up.

I'm not sure if this can be adjusted out (the lever is not adjustable). The only option might be to remove the Muller Power Clutch or invest in expensive aftermarket levers.

Icing on the cake? One of the clutch cover bolts stripped the primary housing.

 

[Cooter]

The clutch isn't adjusted by the lever, only the pull of the lever is.

The clutch is adjusted at either the screw behind the 3 bolt cover on the primary, or on the clutch cable right behind the front tire. Tighten it up a little and looks like you'll be ok!

 

[s0dhi]

The clutch isn't adjusted by the lever, only the pull of the lever is.

The clutch is adjusted at either the screw behind the 3 bolt cover on the primary, or on the clutch cable right behind the front tire. Tighten it up a little and looks like you'll be ok!

Cooter, I've been adjusting it using the process in the manual - loosening the cable, adjusting the primary and setting the cable.

Perhaps you can clarify the following:

Using a flat tip screwdriver, turn adjusting screw (3)
counterclockwise until it lightly bottoms.

So I have not been adjusting it until it fully bottoms, but to the point that there is some light resistance. I could probably turn it another 1/2 to 3/4 turn until it fully bottoms. What is the correct point? The term lightly bottoms, makes it unclear. Also the Muller Power Clutch specifies backing out the adjuster only 1/8 turn instead of 1/4.

 

[Cooter]

Just lightly bottom. They want you to take all the slack out of the system, but not pre-load the TO bearing, or the clutch will not get full pressure to completely engage. I wouldn't mess with that major adjustment at the ramp in the primary for such a small change. That's what the minor adjustment at the cable is for

Don't sweat the details, if your problem is the clutch not fully releasing, i.e. pull in the lever and drop it in 1st and it creeps forward (or loads the engine), then all you need to do is tighten (lengthen...expand....) the adjustment on the cable. Start with a full turn on the cable and see if the clutch no longer drags with wherever you like your lever pulled in at.

Since I like shorty levers and 2 finger my clutch, I set the full clutch release point just before I feel the lever touch my fingers that are still on the grip.

 

[user_deleted]

I think I have it figured out.

It's a combination of the Muller Power Clutch, factory clutch lever and my fat gloved fingers. I did not have this issue with the Chinese levers

as per my original response to your dilemna....again....it reverts back to the IAC servo unit. a variety of parameters allow it to adjust to correct factory set idle speed for all situations. a dragging clutch naturally pulls the idle speed down and the IAC instantly compensates and in your case...over compensates. you need to sort this out pronto or i guarantee you'll have a destroyed clutch pack....severely damaged internal shifting components....or both.

 

[s0dhi]

I think I have it figured out.

It's a combination of the Muller Power Clutch, factory clutch lever and my fat gloved fingers. I did not have this issue with the Chinese levers

as per my original response to your dilemna....again....it reverts back to the IAC servo unit. a variety of parameters allow it to adjust to correct factory set idle speed for all situations. a dragging clutch naturally pulls the idle speed down and the IAC instantly compensates and in your case...over compensates. you need to sort this out pronto or i guarantee you'll have a destroyed clutch pack....severely damaged internal shifting components....or both.

Agreed. I haven't ridden the bike since I noticed the problem and even then no more than 40 miles were in that state. I'll have it sorted out today, hopefully. Timesert for the clutch cover, then properly adjusted ramps and cable.

Thanks for the input and insight, guys. :up:

 

[s0dhi]

So after wrestling with it - the timesert fiasco which required additional grinding and swapping the standard ramp for the Muller Power Ramp, the culprit is the clutch switch. I jumped it with a piece of wire and the idle does not climb with the clutch in while in gear.

Apparently, this is a built in feature, but it's bumping the revs to 2000-ish which isn't desirable.

 

[Cooter]

Never heard that one.
I thought the clutch switch was only for the starter interlock? Why would it affect idle at all? Why would it need too?

 

[s0dhi]

Never heard that one.
I thought the clutch switch was only for the starter interlock? Why would it affect idle at all? Why would it need too?

It is supposed to bump idle up 200rpm or so in gear with the clutch lever pulled on 2008+ XBs. It is by design to keep the bikes from stalling, and to roll away from a stop more easily.

Found this info in numerous BadWeb posts, oddly nothing on BuellXB.com. :upset:

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142838/754799.html?1419893327

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142838/732520.html?1393289958

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142838/750209.html?1412704216

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142838/789305.html?1468204521

There is still some form of issue because that rev bump should only be 200rpm, not 400-800rpm. I'm doubtful that it's the IAC since the IAC is working well at idle in neutral. Or it could be a tuning issue.

So, in summary - it's technically not at problem, I just never noticed the behaviour with the factory exhaust and aftermarket levers. Now, with the aftermarket exhaust and factory levers, I've stumbled upon this rev bump.

Edit: I've disabled the clutch switch for now as I never start the bike in gear anyway. I'm interested to see what the implications are, programming/operation wise.

 

[s0dhi]

OK, the ECM doesn't like the switch disabled. I think I would have to turn off those trouble codes within the ECM - kind of like putting electrical tape over a check engine light. I've enabled the switch again.

Errors:
34 - IAC position too low
26 - Clutch short to ground/broken wire

I think I'm done now. I have a much better understanding of what the ECM is doing.

Edit: I pulled out the jumper and cleaned out the switch with sensor cleaner.

 

[Chicknstripn]

Just throwing this out there because I'm not sure how all the little electrical gizmos and upgrades work on an 08 plus bike.

Have you checked for an intake leak?
I know on 07 and older Buells an intake leak can cause all sorts of erratic idle issues. Not sure what would happen on the 08 and up bikes with the IAC valve and other electronics constantly adjusting the idle.

 

[s0dhi]

Just throwing this out there because I'm not sure how all the little electrical gizmos and upgrades work on an 08 plus bike.

Have you checked for an intake leak?
I know on 07 and older Buells an intake leak can cause all sorts of erratic idle issues. Not sure what would happen on the 08 and up bikes with the IAC valve and other electronics constantly adjusting the idle.

Yes, I did with a propane torch and didn't notice any change to the idle. I'm also not sure if the IAC would compensate for it or not.

Over the winter, I'm going to rotate the engine to either replace the headers or add O2 bungs, so I will be a good time to go through all of the gaskets and seals. Might as well replace them while everything is accessible.

 

[Cooter]

Since you say the clutch switch is the problem, wouldn't it be easiest to just replace the cheap part?

 

[s0dhi]

Since you say the clutch switch is the problem, wouldn't it be easiest to just replace the cheap part?

I tried to remove it, but stripped the screw head - God knows what supernatural thread locker was used. I used an aerosol sensor cleaner and thoroughly cleaned it before jumpering it. I'll order a spare one in the off season, just to have one.

Ultimately, the switch really isn't the issue. It's doing what it's designed to do and the ECM programming is using that info to bump the idle. If anything, it's a programming/mapping issue.

Edit: Bike is running well (with the exception of slight hesitation at 2000rpm while accelerating) and the antics have subsided. Anyhow, I'm comfortable that I understand what's happening; I was just posting the error codes and finding etc. to put some knowledge back into the forum rather than into Facebook.