Its time, yout time guys- Buell xb12STT 2007 rich fouling problem

[Akisnekogr]

So guys, i will tell you the whole story so u got all the data.

Got the bike(XB12STT 2007)
had a custom exhaust unknown origin and stock ecm as well as airbox stock
the bike worked good with some missfires
BUT i had a clutch issue, the previous owner had done a bad clutch mod(the plate that breaks) which took out the bike for almost 3 months
now after the clutch is fixed, new mod+parts changed(by a shop) the bike starts for a some period and then goes out and it wont start again, the spark plugs come out fould by rich fuel and there is a distinct smell of gasoline.
after i got the bluetooth and ecmspy i saw that AFV was at 110%( location near sea level), changed it to 90 and the bike worked better for sseveral minutes like half an hour. but the problem comes back afterwards. DID NOT perform a tps reset as the values read by ecmdroid seemed ok on the tps part.

QUESTION- OBSERVATION, the IAT sensor gives some values which dont seem very correct(21 celcius, while temprature was arround 15 max) and it did not change very much.

will start remapping in case bad mapping to begin with was the problem, but first of all do you use eeprom of ecmdroid for remapping? fount it quite more complicated than others i have seen and secondly what do you guys believe? where else to start and what to check?

OBSERVATION- i think the bike is missing the BAS sensor but on ecmspy under ecmparameters general config its ticked? should i change it? Also the Exhaust valve actuator seems disingaged but still ticked under the same menu should i uncheck it as well?

QUESTION- this bike as i read doesnt have a MAF OR MAP sensor? how does it adjust the fuel, only based on the IAT and O2?

Thank you all sorry if i missed any important info please advise me and i will update with anything you need.

 

[34nineteen]

So guys, i will tell you the whole story so u got all the data.

Got the bike(XB12STT 2007)
had a custom exhaust unknown origin and stock ecm as well as airbox stock
the bike worked good with some missfires
BUT i had a clutch issue, the previous owner had done a bad clutch mod(the plate that breaks) which took out the bike for almost 3 months
now after the clutch is fixed, new mod+parts changed(by a shop) the bike starts for a some period and then goes out and it wont start again, the spark plugs come out fould by rich fuel and there is a distinct smell of gasoline.
after i got the bluetooth and ecmspy i saw that AFV was at 110%( location near sea level), changed it to 90 and the bike worked better for sseveral minutes like half an hour. but the problem comes back afterwards. DID NOT perform a tps reset as the values read by ecmdroid seemed ok on the tps part.

QUESTION- OBSERVATION, the IAT sensor gives some values which dont seem very correct(21 celcius, while temprature was arround 15 max) and it did not change very much.

will start remapping in case bad mapping to begin with was the problem, but first of all do you use eeprom of ecmdroid for remapping? fount it quite more complicated than others i have seen and secondly what do you guys believe? where else to start and what to check?

OBSERVATION- i think the bike is missing the BAS sensor but on ecmspy under ecmparameters general config its ticked? should i change it? Also the Exhaust valve actuator seems disingaged but still ticked under the same menu should i uncheck it as well?

QUESTION- this bike as i read doesnt have a MAF OR MAP sensor? how does it adjust the fuel, only based on the IAT and O2?

Thank you all sorry if i missed any important info please advise me and i will update with anything you need.

IAT O2 cylinder head temp and TPS. It’s a pretty basic injection system. I think the speed sensor plays into it a little also.

AFV at 110 is toward the high end, and really shouldn’t be an issue as it will “float around” as you ride the bike. Remember it’s a value, not a setting.

Missing the BAS could cause issues (I’ve heard), but it’s job is to shut the engine down if tipped. To remove it requires a bit more than twisting all the wires together. It usually lives by the rear seat latch on a ulysses or lightning, so double check that you didn’t miss it.

 

[Akisnekogr]

@34nineteen Yeah I checked the service manual about the BAS position sensor and I don't seem to have it, seems pretty big to miss it but the bike war running three months ago prior to the clutch issues do I don't think this is my problem, I don't know how they removed it, should I uncheck it under ecm parameters on ecmdroid in your opinion?

 

[34nineteen]

If it was running fine before with the option selected , that’s probably not your issue

You may want to investigate how it was bypassed and verify it was done correctly as the sensor is looking for particular value to indicate everything is ok. Just unplugging it or jumpering all the wires together can lead the ecm into thinking something is wrong.
.

 

[Akisnekogr]

Yes but I wouldn't think it would create rich foulment, will check Monday however and come back with more info

 

[Akisnekogr]

How do these readings seem to you? Think maybe that o2 is broken which could result in rich fuel?
https://ibb.co/k4HYLck
This is the spark plugs https://ibb.co/b35BSsq

 

[Akisnekogr]

Yes but I wouldn't think it would create rich foulment, will check Monday however and come back with more info

It's there after all my bad.

 

[34nineteen]

How do these readings seem to you? Think maybe that o2 is broken which could result in rich fuel?
https://ibb.co/k4HYLck
This is the spark plugs https://ibb.co/b35BSsq

The warmup circuit on these is very rich. So if this bike was started when cold, let idle for a minute or two, and revved a lot to show it off, having plugs looking like that isnt abnormal.


The rule of thumb is "dont start it, if youre not going to ride it"

Also, it wouldnt hurt to check the O2 values.

 

[Barrett]

Sir: You have NO baseline with which to work, so consequently all your hypothesizing and questions are irrelevant.
The 1203cc model XB's rely on the following to spark the combustion process and open/close the injectors and duration of same:
TPS switch
IAT sensor
CPS sensor
O2 sensor
CTS sensor
IAE actuator box

Baseline requirements: Install a known complete STOCK full map....install new NGK DCPR8EIX spark plugs....verify ECM grounds intact and continuity....verify ECM is "seeing" values for all above components.
If beyond your skill-set, then have the shop that you mentioned in thread initiation perform this work.
To date, this is nothing more than a crap-shoot.

 

[34nineteen]

How do these readings seem to you? Think maybe that o2 is broken which could result in rich fuel?
https://ibb.co/k4HYLck
This is the spark plugs https://ibb.co/b35BSsq

Is the O2 sensor voltage fluctuating between 0.1-0.8 volts while idling?

and everything Barrett said above. Clean grounds are extremely important when diagnosing one of these bikes. Follow the path and get all of the interfaces.

There are some stock maps floating around out there with modified values. Unfortunately, its hard to tell which is which without ECMSpy and comparing cells and values.

 

[Akisnekogr]

Sir: You have NO baseline with which to work, so consequently all your hypothesizing and questions are irrelevant.
The 1203cc model XB's rely on the following to spark the combustion process and open/close the injectors and duration of same:
TPS switch
IAT sensor
CPS sensor
O2 sensor
CTS sensor
IAE actuator box

Baseline requirements: Install a known complete STOCK full map....install new NGK DCPR8EIX spark plugs....verify ECM grounds intact and continuity....verify ECM is "seeing" values for all above components.
If beyond your skill-set, then have the shop that you mentioned in thread initiation perform this work.
To date, this is nothing more than a crap-shoot.

Thank you for your input and help first of all,
So I found out what exactly is going on with fuel for this engine earlier today.

Today I started this baseline exactly, however I run into some problems cause with ecmdroid it took me a while to figure out eeprom editor concept and still not 100% sure if u can change the fuel maps from there to check if it's customised,

Afterwards I tried to find a map/eeprom for my id (bueib), which resulted in me finding a .txt file which I could not find how to use with ecmdroid, I thought of ordering the cable but meanwhile I will get a bt adapter for PC to use ecmspy in the next two days.

So anyhow, I left this alone for now and started checking sensors that's why I posted the photos of the O2 voltage and IAT, cause I couldnt find what the voltages should be, to answer the gentleman above also the O2 Voltage was stuck in 0.5v even after like two three minutes engine running, will let it run more tomorrow.

My "mechanic" said it should be between 0 and 1 But to answer the gentleman above as far as the mechanic and the o2 and also to explain why I put you all through this,
This guy doesn't know good English so every info I take from this AWESOME COMMUNITY OF BUELLERS, most helpful people I have met on the internet, I have to translate in a way that he understands it in Greek terms, eg we NEVER SAY O2 SENSOR it's just Lamda sensor for every mechanic on this whole country, some know it's also called this very very small percentage. but does have a good knowledge of tuning and the engine and the most important he is not a thief....

The two previous guys that looked at the bike were terrible.... One broke my clutch and I have a suspicion he may have stolen the original ECU from this bike was bought with... He wanted 800 euro for clutch discs and whole clutch hub... And when I told him to check if the bike had a mod for the clutch and it could cause it being broke he told me he checked it and this was not a problem.... Look at this and tell me if you want to take your bike over there....
https://ibb.co/7rFRt8t
https://ibb.co/FnX4t1h
https://ibb.co/wKKt1Xk
The second one when I took the bike to him for the clutch, he never contacted me and after two weeks o called him and he said I should order the parts that I thought was faulty( a list I made to speak with twin moto for help in-between the two shops) and then wanted 150 euro for putting the parts in the clutch hub.... Not even changed gasket, and for the shop to cut two mm from the clutch outer housing... So yeah I am a computers engineer so flashing eeproms etc is not hard for me and I understand how the motor uses what sensor, the mechanic is for the numbers at fuel maps and the internal combustion knowledge as well as doing some of the work that I don't know, like checking fuel pressure


Sorry for the sheet everybody, another BUELLER had to hear my pain of having a bike from November and having ridden it 7 days... Not even the money don't hurt as much.... I really love the bike and just want to ride it..... Thank you again for all help and sorry for ignorance...

 

[34nineteen]

That looks like the DMF machining part to fix a broken primary cover

 

[Akisnekogr]

I know, I bought the original dmf and replaced, this was custom made and was wayyyy too fat... Also the never bothered to trim the primary gasket. Hehe it's not endless yeeet just two pages�� my big post makes it seem endless.Anyway back on point, Martin from twin moto had been extra helpfully, my fuel map was a ****show as my o2 was disabled in a sloppy maner, he send me a new eeprom, will burn today and come back with more info.

 

[Outlaw]

Trim the primary gasket ?

 

[34nineteen]

I know, I bought the original dmf and replaced, this was custom made and was wayyyy too fat... Also the never bothered to trim the primary gasket. Hehe it's not endless yeeet just two pages�� my big post makes it seem endless.Anyway back on point, Martin from twin moto had been extra helpfully, my fuel map was a ****show as my o2 was disabled in a sloppy maner, he send me a new eeprom, will burn today and come back with more info.

Martin is great.