New owner to this bike; tuning questions

[johng_22]

Please bare with me as I am just learning the ropes with the systems and methods of tuning these bikes. I picked up an '07 SS. It has the 'Race Use Only' box in it. So a few questions if y'all could help me out.

I am going to change the exhaust and since I don't know what the previous owner has installed, I'd like to start clean anyway so I know exactly what is running in this bike.

1. Is this Race use only black box part of the Race Kit?

2. Using a method such as BuellTooth, can I tune the bike with this installed or do I need to remove it? I've read some threads about a license, etc needed and I'm kinda lost at that point. If there is a specific thread or article that would be helpful for me to learn, I'd appreciate if anyone could kindly provide that.

3. Is this box even needed to tune with BuellTooth method?

4. If not BuellTooth method, is there some other process I SHOULD be following instead?

I can't think of any other questions but anyone please feel free to jump in if there is anything else that I should know. Assume I know nothing and you are probably right

 

[rchuff]

I wouldn't touch the race ecm as it has race maps in it. You should post pics of the exhaust and we could tell you what kind it is. You might already have a great setup. You can still tune a race ecm but why if you already have a good setup. By the way yes it is used for better free flowing intake filter and exhaust.

 

[johng_22]

The exhaust installed today is Jardine. The can eeds chopped off and repacked because the rivets destroyed the pipe. I'm going to replace it....thinking Drummer SS or maybe Hawk if I can find a good used stock can.

So you say don't touch that race ecm but wouldn't I HAVE TO when changing pipes? I see so many maps specific for a given pipe. Can I backup what is installed there before writing a new one? Going back to my original question is this box even needed to tune with BuellTooth? Can that tune a stock ECM? I think I'll better understand what I want to do if someone can explain that part to me.

 

[rchuff]

Well if you had said all the info like above^^^^^^. I would of said yes you should remap for New EXHUAST YOU ARE PUTTING ON. MANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!

 

[johng_22]

LOL. I think maybe I'm not explaining the root of my question well enough. That Race tune box. Is IT what the map writes to? If that box were not in the bike (again I'm running under the premise that was added and not stock) would a map still be able to be written to the stock ECM? I've read so many articles on this site that assume you already have some level of knowledge as most of ou guys already do, that I don't get a full understanding of what I'm reading based purely on a huge knowledge gap on my part. Is there a good article, document, or thread that you would point me to in order to gain a good foundational understanding? You guys been doing this for years and take for granted all that you have learned from one another. I'm coming in late to the game so please keep that in mind. Appreciate all your support as I figure out all this

 

[Chicknstripn]

The black box that has "for race use only" printed on it IS your ECM. Your bike will not run without it! YES the ECM holds the "maps" that effect the bikes running. YES you can back up your ECM by saving the information on it. You can do this with ECMspy and also ECMDROID. IT IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED that you save your eprom and fuel maps prior to messing with your ECM. if you're not familiar with any of these terms I would highly suggest you do A LOT of google searching and study up on this subject as much as possible before messing with any type of tuning! www.buellmods.com should be a good source for info and also look for the ECMspy user guide.
BTW how does your bike run right now?
How does it run with race ECM and drummer?
If it runs well then I'd say leave it the hell alone.
My bike is heavily modified and has a factory buell race ECM. I've never messed with the mapping and it runs perfectly fine for me. I've had the bike since it was brand new, going on 45k miles and I've never messed with the mapping. Is it perfect? NO. It's a Buell, it will never be perfect.
That's my 2cents on this mapping business.
Ride it first with the new pipe and race ECM then decide if you need to mess with the ECM

 

[nicholas900]

It's hard to tell from your post. But the race use only "box" you refer to is the ECM. You seem to be alluding to it as being an add on or extra piggy back type of thing. It replaces the factory ECM. It seems most folks either tune the factory ECM, or replace it with a "race ECM" calibrated to the specific exhaust.

I'm no tuning expert. But IMO a race ECM should work reasonably well with any after market exhaust. So from your post I'm reading it as you have a Jardine and as far as you know a Race ECM for it. I think you would be ok keeping the ECM as is and installing a different brand aftermarket muffler without too much drama. Then ride it and see how it is. I have a Drummer SS and the Race ECM for it. I've tried a few other mufflers just to see if I like the sound better and it seemed to run about the same for each. But with that said it was just a few miles. No long term data. Some one else I'm sure can be more specific on that.

 

[johng_22]

Awesome. In a netshell....the above is exactly what I was needing to know and yes, I was thinking it was a piggyback like many of the Harley addons. Since this is a replacement of the ECM, this makes sense. The previous owner did have a Harley shop somewhere around Indianapolis reflash it, so it's not running the factory tune. He said it ran way better after the flash running on it now was applied. I'm not terribly familiar with what a Really good running Buell is but I can tell you it doesn't run poorly. It will burb here and there when accelerating from idle but that's about it. No excessive pop on decal, etc. I think I'll follow the recommendation above and just leave it alone and see how it runs with a different pipe. I really like the sound of the Jardine but I want something that's not going to fall apart or blow itself up every 5k miles as it appears this one has already done. The previous owner said the pipe has less than 5k on it.

 

[johng_22]

Continuing on my earlier question, if I wish to try some maps available from multiple sources, would it be advisable to just pickup a used stock ECM from eBay (I don't have the stock one)? If I buy one pulled from a bike and ensuring the part number is correct, is there anything special I need to do in order to use that used ECM in my bike? Like VIN, etc? I mean I get TPS reset, etc but are there other steps if coming from a different bike?

I think I'd like to just leave my Race ECM alone and revert back to that if needed but still have the ability to try out some different maps which are most abundant for stock ECM's (I mean who doesn't chase the best running tune for their bike!?)

 

[lowkey]

Johng_22 Let me see if I can explain how these two ECM's work so it is more clear for you. Lets say you are the "race" ECM and you read a book from left to right like normal and I hit you on the head and you now read from bottom right (you are now a stock ECM) BUT I can print the book pages bottom right first so you can read normal. This is the best I can explain it for you, both ECM's are capable of reading the same data (random "maps" made for different setups) but the format needs to be laid out for that same data to be read by the two ECM's, this comes down to the firmware and where it expects to see the hexadecimal data to reference. You are best off buying a stock ECM if you wish to flash maps onto the ECM because they are in the format for a stock ECM to read, you could also pull the data you want and merge it into the format for your current ECM but I think it is over your head (no offense!).

As to VIN info ETC... no not needed just 07 (DDFI2) and earlier or 08 (DDFI3) and later is what matters.

 

[johng_22]

Seriously no offense taken. I just wanted to ensure that I was on the right track. I read in some other thread to go ahead and have the bike at operating temp before swapping ECM's then performing the TPS reset so that enrichment isn't on. Are there any other gotcha's that I should be aware of? Thanks for that info and really I wouldn't be offended by speaking the truth. Now, I know how to tune a more modern Harley no problem but these guys here are a different story.

 

[lowkey]

TPS isn't even that complicated... just swap the ECM out (bike does not need to be warmed up), you will need either ECMDroid, ECMSpy or TunerProRT go into the newly swapped ECM and set AFV to 100 then physically back out the idle adjustment screw so that the throttle plate is fully closed, go back into the tuning program and "zero" the TPS value now go back to the idle screw and watch the program value while getting live data from the bike and up the value to 6.1-6.3 degrees in ECMDroid or 5.1 in the other two programs as a starting point. With live data on start the bike and get it up to 180 degrees, now fine tune the idle screw so the RPM idle value is 1000K-1050K and you are done... final value doesn't matter (within reason) those I listed are a starting value to get the bike up to temps is all.

As for what stock ECM-ID to look for, if you have already found EEPROM's you want to use or think they are going to be the one you want check what ECM-ID it was made for because you can't flash a different ECM-ID over another one, this goes back to the firmware dilemma I was talking about before. Also make sure the one you get is DDFI2 if your bike is 07 or earlier or DDFI3 if 08 or later.:up:

 

[johng_22]

None of the sellers on eBay have listed if the firmware is DDFI2. Most of the used ones appear to be from 2003 models. Is this likely to be running an older firmware? Is there a minimum model year I need to look for?

 

[lowkey]

Have a look at this list here, almost all are correct info but there is at least one discrepancy I've yet to fix that lists a "race" ECM as the "stock" ECM-ID (BUEGB this is most likely what you have already)

http://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?53158-General-tuning-options-and-discussion-in-2017-(ECMDRoid-ECMSpy-etc-)&p=586519&viewfull=1#post586519

 

[johng_22]

Wow, I just read that entire thread and I may be more confused than I already was

Much like JonDredd stated in the above thread, I just want to be able to put the right tune on this new (to me) bike and since I have the Race ECM, I derive that the Stock ECM is the answer instead in place of the Race ECM. Then this whole firmware conversation is where I get lost. I already purchased a BuellTooth so I'd like to be able to use it or that was a waste. I see two different ECM's for a 2007; Y0152.3A8 (U9E) and a Y0152.3A8A (B2M). The latter I've only found as a new blank from the dealer. Should I just buy a brand new one, take it to the dealer to let them perform the setup and hope that I then have the firmware to use the BuelTooth maps or do I chance it and buy a used ECM (I only find 2003 model year ECM's) on eBay but then what version is loaded on them and can I use the maps easily from BuellTooth?

What is the difference between these two ecm part numbers????

 

[lowkey]

Johng_22, its really not as complicated as you may be seeing it at first...

What is your end goal?
1.) Try stock ECM mapping on your bike?
2.) Try a pre-made tune made by someone?
3.) Buy a 2nd ECM just for ****s and giggles???
4.) Have a dialed tune done for your bike better than all above options for about the same $$$ or less of option 3???

IF you are after...
1.) Give me your ECMID(found on the first screen once connected to the bike through ECMDroid) and year of stock ECM bike and I can merge that data to easily flash onto your ECM through ECMDroid.
2.) Go buy the corresponding ECM to match the ECMID of the tune that it was made to work with and put the ECM in the bike and flash the tune to it.
3.) Buy from here http://idspd.com/xcart/products-buell/xb12
4.) You will have to find someone who does this as a service ( I do not!), Or get the software and take both the bike and laptop to a DYNO and pay $$$ to get it done or lastly just dig in and learn on your own like some of us on here have done.


Just to touch on your last post... don't bother with a "blank" ECM as it will be useless, you will need to then pay Harley to flash it and they will only put the stock ECM firmware/data on it.

If you own an 03-07 XB you can buy any ECM for those years as they are DDFI2 and if you roll your sleeves up you can flash any tune to them with some knowhow while leaving the firmware intact, if you do not wish to do that you need to put up the $$$ and buy the setup for what you are after.

Lastly a forum member has an ECM for sale here for $50 http://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?53672-ECM-for-sale