Race Buell Improvement Thread

[Kurlon]

Ok, my XB12XT is now a fully christened race bike, and I don't want to park it under a tarp any time soon. Based on this weekend, I think it's actually in a pretty good state considering how little I actually did to it. But that doesn't mean it's 'done', right?

Suspension - I need to get it refreshed at a minimum, and resprung as I think it's likely too stiff right now. Until I decide what's happening to the brakes, no heroics here. Showa forks, no idea if anyone still offers cartridge kits for them? Shock I'd love to replace, will have to see if Penske has a build for the XT or not.

Brakes - Never did touch the rear lever, I know there is a suggested rear master upgrade, and I also see there is an alternate rear caliper and mount out there, is that 'upgrade' caliper setup lighter, or is it supposed to provide more rear brake which for me would be wasted? On the front, EBC rotor, latest mount hardware, stock master/line/caliper with EBC EPFA pads, worked, no fade, wanted more. Part of the issue was not knowing how much front brake I could get away with straight up and down, tires weren't giving me feedback to react to, similar when trailing it, don't have a feel for the limits but felt like there should have been 'more' there. Lever wasn't to the bar, habits kicked in and I was two fingering it. Actually found myself using engine braking to do a lot, which I haven't done since I raced a TT-R 125. I need a shorter brake line at a minimum just for cleaner routing, I know the 'easy' upgrade is a ZTL2 conversion and I've already got a finned rotor, but will that increase braking, or just improve brake cooling/longevity, and is there a weight savings/gain?

Motor - Honestly, leaning towards leaving her stock for now, primary limiting factor is the pilot right now. Drummer SS muffler, K&N filter, matched IDS ECM, STM slipper clutch, I think I've hit all the 'easy' and low risk power gains already.

Weight - I'm not sure what's left for easy weight savings, I need to remove the helmet lock... I want to replace the ignition with a switch, and will put a keyless gas cap on, wheels are already pretty light stock... how much is there to save in the subframe/seat area?

Other wants - Quickshifter?

 

[Cooter]

Really interested with this thread and the upgrades and personal choices.

Suspension: I've found the suspension to be pretty dang good (at my pace), once the spring and oil are right. Theres lots of adjustment range in the stock set up. I wonder if the BPF fork legs from the 1125/1190 could be made to fit? But if you go that far, theres brake options from using other brands of front end.

Brakes: You mean the Brembo P32? I have them both here, maybe I could weigh them? I doubt it would be enough to matter. I'm not much of a rear brake guy either, as in only in the dirt These do engine brake quite a bit so thats nice. If you aren't fading the front with the ZTL I am surprised! Maybe its the track? If you do get to fade, the easy upgrade should solve it. It's more pad area and Brembo has 2 different types of pads to pick from. I was still fading with the EPFA, and all that stopped (PUUUNNNN!) with the Brembos. The ZTL-2 is bigger, but I don't know if its heavier, the rest would be a wash.

Motor: There isn't much to do here either, IMO. Erik obsessed about them for many years so either stock with the muffler/ECM like you have or go full boat with a 1275 kit. Easy to do if you're comfortable splitting cases (I'd do the trans too). Not sure what HP there is to gain but I think theres dyno charts out there to look for.

Weight: This was Erik's whole thing. I don't think theres an extra ounce to be found, lol.

I LOVE the quick shifter on these. For your '08 it is as simple as adding a sensor on the linkage. I run a Dynojet 3-113 pull sensor. You can use a push sensor and swap the linkage for GP if you want. Either way, wire to the kickstand plug thats there, and simply turn on the shifter feature in the ECM with ECMDroid, ECMSpy, TunnerPro, etc. The timing is unadjustable, works well near redline, but it's not a modern-algorithm driven one, just a timer. Rev-Mo.com has interesting options I have tried that I really like as well. I have no idea how they'd do with race stress but I know they use one on their race bike.

 

[Kurlon]

I've heard from one engine guy that he doesn't like the 1275 kits, feels they have ring sealing issues. He also doesn't recommend building much past 110hp on these motors. That feels like a target that should be doable stock bore, just dialing in compression/squish, cams and head work? Didn't Erik at one time recommend putting XB9 pistons in as a comp bump?

On the quick shifter, I'm curious how much timing they need, to not get serious flywheel snap on a shift I REALLY need to be deliberate closing and opening the throttle. I had one short shift going down the hill out of T1 that lofted the front as I was trying to flick from left to right. Felt like a hero and had a brief worry about loosing the front all in the same moment. I'm sure on camera you could barely see the forks lengthen but I'm telling ya, felt HUGE in my head. In the past I've used Healtech, they've got a setup that looks like it does coil interruption on the XB series. Strain gauge instead of a push/pull switch, can be used for up and down shifts, fully adjustable, but not by gear 'cause no way to deduce that detail.

Annitori's does a fuel cut, not sure if they're using a switch or strain gauge, cordona has a generic strain gauge kit too...

 

[Cooter]

I would believe an actual engine builder way before I'd listen to some a-hole on a forum named Cooter, LOL. My personal opinion is to leave race bike engine internals as stock as possible. They live a hard enough life and I don't think 7HP is worth the expense either.

IIRC the OE setting is 90mS. You can change it with a more detailed program like ECMSpy or TunerPro, but not the simple ECMDroid. It affects all gears and all RPM's. Honestly 90mS sounds like a LONG time but it takes awhile for that heavy crank to slow down and ends up being pretty perfect as-is for smooth upshifts at near redline. All the ECM needs is a ground signal on that pin, so I've seen strain gauges, switches, and even a magnetic target system that worked really well. The OE system will do spark cut or fuel and spark cut, your choice. I didn't notice a difference.

 

[Kurlon]

Going to a track day Tues to just get some seat time in a no stress situation. This means I'll be dialing back a ton and not really pushing the bike likely, but should get a better overall feel for where things stand. Really hoping to start to learn how to read Dunlops on track.

 

[Kurlon]

To follow up on this, never did make it to that track day... the org announced, THAT WEEKEND that "Oh, BTW, we're now doing sound tests..." that my XB would never pass. So... no TD, no refund... meh.

 

[Kurlon]

How much lighter are non-Uly rear wheels vs my Uly unit?

 

[Barrett]

XBRR magnesium rear----approx 40% lighter
PVM Mannheim, Germany rear---approx 35% lighter
XB stock wheel stripped finish raw casting approx 8% lighter

 

[Kurlon]

I'll just have to keep my eyes open for an XBRR or PVM wheelset, not that I expect either to pop up any time soon.

 

[34nineteen]

To follow up on this, never did make it to that track day... the org announced, THAT WEEKEND that "Oh, BTW, we're now doing sound tests..." that my XB would never pass. So... no TD, no refund... meh.

Bummer! I was concerned about that when I was considering running an XB track bike as my usual track has sound regulations.

 

[34nineteen]

I'll just have to keep my eyes open for an XBRR or PVM wheelset, not that I expect either to pop up any time soon.

Magnesium Mike Lowary is running mag wheels on his XB. They are out there, but just hard to find. Due diligence in your search will probably pay off.

 

[Kurlon]

2024 rules posted, sounds like the American Air-Cooled Twins class is no more, and they’ve clamped hard on air cooled twins builds, 350lbs minimum weight and have to use as shipped cylinders and pistons. 90hp vs the 120+ KTM890/990, Pan Am and Indian FTR in a straight up fight is not as fun.

 

[Kurlon]

Got clarification, motor rules were an error… but no more sub-class.

 

[Kurlon]

Random poking through the S1W engine bits while inspecting a donor X1 motor for the project, picked up the front primary sprocket. My god what a boat anchor, getting the aluminum ver will drop some weight and get some mass out of the driveline. Dunno if I wanna try for the matching aluminum clutch basket too or not...

Meanwhile, I do have a lead on a set of XBRR wheels but they need some repair and the suggested man for that job hasn't gotten back to me yet.

 

[Cooter]

I'm not sure what is compatible of not but Magnesium Mike (Mike Lowery) had a bunch of lightweight driveling parts available for his XB9 project, and that thing revs like a supercar! Might be worth a PM:up:

 

[Kurlon]

Hah, so for giggles I hit up the current Buell Motorcycle parts line asking for a quote on an 1190SX front brake setup, for my Uly...

"The 1190SX front brake setup is not recommended for your 08 Ulysses. That set up has never been tested."

They won't quote me a price.

 

[Cooter]

Ya, they are so right. Brakes are important, you sure wouldn't want to put an 'untested' bike/brake combo set up out there! I wonder where they got the brakes for the new SuperCruiser? It looks so familiar, yet I can't write place it.... Hmmmm

The irony is, 1190SX brakes on a Uly are dang near identical to the design parameters of a OE '08-up Uly. They never ever were 'tested' for some tube frame one off RSD built SuperCruiser thing.

All you need is a 3/4" MC (I'd recommend a radial style) and a ZTL-2 caliper. The race rotor helps as does the solid mounting kit, depends on your pace. I can even send you the 3-D print file for the front scoop if you'd rather make one than buy one.

 

[Cooter]

I'm SO curious to know who is buying them...and how many? I know of 7 total.

A friend of mine is a big motorcycle guy and BIG Bueller. He has the very FIRST 1190SX (given to him by Erik) in his house on display and HE won't buy a "New Buell" so...?

 

[Kurlon]

Completely unrelated, I'll have to get a pic of the giant Buell flag/banner my wife got me for Christmas. She even tried to find one with a logo matching what was in use in 2008 to match the year of my Uly. I'm going to have the best looking slowest guy there pit at Daytona.

Back on topic, I see new, in box ZTL2 calipers going for $480 on eBay (1125 PN), used around $400 in various states of way too crusty, and a couple for $350 that have been up there for over a year that make me wonder what the owners were thinking. (One has been chromed, the other hydro-dipped with a skulls motif.) When the EBR site was still working they were showing a couple different prices:

906 H0110.1B6ZT Rev A BRAKE CALIPER, FRONT, 8 PISTON $183.37
907 H0110.1B7ZT Rev B FRONT CALIPER ASSEMBLY $480.36

If I could score a new in box ZTL2 for $185 I'd be all over it. With a consistent NOS listing at $480, that limits how much I'm willing to spend for used. I'm curious what, if any changes there have been in that caliper? I know there were some color changes, but it looks like possibly other changes looking at the PN history?

H0110.1AMXT came out in 2008 on the 1125. In 2009 some XB12s got it. H0300.1AMA pads. The 2010 XBs retain this caliper.
H0110.1AMAXT (black) and H0110.1AMAYDD (red) show up on the 09 1125, H0300.1AMB pads which now include H0032.02A8 'stopper', so dunno if the compound changed or not?
H0110.1AMCZT (black) and H0110.1AMCYDD (red) show up on the 10 1125, none of the other part numbers changed, so... why the new PN for the assemblies when they're the same colors as before too?

Then there are the 1190PNs above, implying an additional tweak down the line?

 

[Barrett]

And speaking of "friends":
First pic--Childhood friend Harley Davidson Managing Director of Production York Plant with Springsteen @ York Fairgrounds summer of 1978

Second pic-Childhood friend Ricky Rizzon owner of Rizzon Cycle with Springsteen @ Hagerstown Memorial Day weekend 1980

I took both pics