Rough below 4k rpm

[fenderlvr]

I just bought a 2009 XB12R. It runs really rough below 4k rpm. It has a huge delay in throttle response and misses and then bucks. Above 4k it's perfect.

I've done a TPS reset, did nothing. Then I took the airbox cover off and saw what's been done. There's a bunch of large holes in the airbox and the interactive exhaust cable was disconnected and pulled out so it's wide open all the time.

I tried taping up the holes and connected the cable back to the servo. After that the bike would barely idle and it would stall if I gave it any throttle. So it's definitely been tuned.

My question is, should I try to make it stock and get a stock mapping, or are these mods fixing some problem with stock and I should roll with those mods?

The bike is barely driveable by the way. It's not a small tuning issue. I basically have to get it above 4k rpm and drag the clutch to get going.

I'm going to keep checking other things as well. Just bought iridium spark plugs that I'm gonna install. Any other things I can check while waiting for my ecmspy cable to arrive?

 

[34nineteen]

I just bought a 2009 XB12R. It runs really rough below 4k rpm. It has a huge delay in throttle response and misses and then bucks. Above 4k it's perfect.

I've done a TPS reset, did nothing. Then I took the airbox cover off and saw what's been done. There's a bunch of large holes in the airbox and the interactive exhaust cable was disconnected and pulled out so it's wide open all the time.

I tried taping up the holes and connected the cable back to the servo. After that the bike would barely idle and it would stall if I gave it any throttle. So it's definitely been tuned.

My question is, should I try to make it stock and get a stock mapping, or are these mods fixing some problem with stock and I should roll with those mods?

The bike is barely driveable by the way. It's not a small tuning issue. I basically have to get it above 4k rpm and drag the clutch to get going.

I'm going to keep checking other things as well. Just bought iridium spark plugs that I'm gonna install. Any other things I can check while waiting for my ecmspy cable to arrive?

Is it throwing a code?

Not really sure how you did the TPS reset properly without a "ecmspy cable" or Bluetooth module.

Also not sure how you came up with "its definitely been tuned" because the bike would barely idle and stall when given throttle. Yes, that COULD be the issue, but its no way "definite". Did the previous owner tell you they had it tuned? Usually they brag about it, since they paid good money to have it done, whether it was worth it or not.

Have you checked for leaks at the intake seals? You can do that while waiting for the cable to arrive. Leaks at the intake seals will cause what you're describing, as the bike seems to be misbehaving in high manifold vacuum conditions. Have you checked the IAC to make sure its functioning correctly?

Once the cable arrives, then do a TPS reset.

If you're looking to throw money at it, I'd recommend running a can of Seafoam through the tank. Will it help? Maybe. Probably not. But the iridium plugs probably wont help this either.

Free service manuals here: buellmods.com

 

[Barrett]

Not really sure how you did the TPS reset properly without a "ecmspy cable" or Bluetooth module.


It's a 2009 model. No additional software required for TPS reset.

 

[fenderlvr]

I didn't know I could get codes without a tool. Got these codes.

15 Intake air temperature sensor
21 Interactive muffler control
33 Fuel pump

I think 21 could be because the valve was hard wired open.

The guy I bought it from also gave me a new fuel pump. Looks like it's not super easy to get to. Is there anything around that I can check before pulling the fuel pump?

The IAT I should just change out sounds like?

 

[Cooter]

it's definitely been screwed up

Because the last guy probably bought a $20 cable thinking he was gonna teach himself to be the next best Buell tuner on the planet.

while waiting for my ecmspy cable to arrive.

Oops!
:upset:
Oh crap here's another one Do you know how to manipulate ECMSpy? If the answer is no, for ****s sake just STOP or you will be in a worse situation than you are now. Minus time and money, plus a bunch of frustration. Don't believe me? 1000's of threads to search. Exactly like yours. They usually end with a for-sale ad:down:

Even if you are not a mechanic, but not an idiot, there is still a lot of helpful information that can be learned to get you down the right path.
Like diagnosing the bike, NOT guessing it's the tune.
Use the right method, and you'll get satisfaction. Every. Single. Time. Keep guessing and you might get lucky, rarely, but only after you buy too many expensive dinners.

Read the manual that 34nineteen gave you. There is a whole section on diagnosis. It's easy to read and written by the engineers that designed your Buell. Theres no Forum or god-forbid Facebook group:stupid: that knows more than they do.
Read the ECMSpy manual on how to tune. Confusing? Yes. It's hard to be a good mechanic. Thats why we're expensive:angel:

What did the seller say about it's running condition? Did it test ride fine? What happened after? Any other mods? Has it sat?
Short cut:
If the seller says it was fine until he attacked it with a ECMSpy cable...:apathy: spend $150 to get a stock ECM and plug it in. Race or stock doesn't matter, but be SURE its an unmolested ECM. AVOID the temptation of downloading someone else's 'free stock tune' until you are WELL versed in Buell tuning. Please.

Bottom line is that the bike MUST be in perfect working order BEFORE you mess with tuning. If you want to play technician and start tuning it without knowing, it could be masking an existing issue and make your problems worse or even catastrophic:hororr:

Once you start searching for "Buell tuning issues" you will find ECMDroid (free on Googleplay store) and it is a fantastic and easy to use diagnostic program that needs a bluetooth wireless connection to your bike. I like the Buelltooth dongle I got from Rev-mo.com. Rev-mo.com is a great site to help you tune your Buell... AFTER you are done fixing it.
Things to do:
With it completely assembled and idling, spray carb cleaner around both intake seals, if the idle changes, 34:19 is right.
Remove the air filter and rev to 2500rpm, spray carb cleaner down the TB. If it runs better, its lean (no, we don't know why yet).
Remove the airbox floor plate noting if the TB horn gasket is correctly sandwiched (its in the manual) and pull the spark plugs out, take focused close-ups and post them, then throw them away and replace them with iridiums. Check condition of the wires, including at the coil.
Do NOT repeatedly start it and run it a bunch in the garage to see if it fixes itself. The Buell rule: "If you start it. RIDE it.". Or you will foul plugs again almost immediately.
While it's running ****ty, does it smoke black out the tailpipe?

Once you get the ECM readings, any codes? What is the current AFV? What is the EGO CORR value? They are good hints to whats wrong with your bike, but changing them back to 100 is only a temporary test.

 

[Cooter]

Mileage?

15: Doesn't mean its a bad sensor. Save your money for now. It means the ECM is getting a reading it doesn't like from that circuit. That code can be thrown by running it with the sensor unplugged by mistake, like when you're taping up holes in the airbox.

21: Only if the something in the system is bad or poorly programmed in the ECM, but not if the cable is disconnected or wired open like you say yours is. Either way, the IEV working or not won't cause it to run like that.

33, interesting. The XB doesn't have a fuel pressure sensor, so the code can only be wiring related and the seller saw the code and was just guessing like you are.

I kind of doubt it's the FP? But only because you describe it as running poorly at low RPM/Low load and running well at high RPM/High load.
You can check the pressure easily (49psi) either buying a cheap tool (Rev-mo.com) or making it yourself. I have one in So. Cal. Where are you?
Your pump is now 13 years old. That and common internal hose leaks will drop the pressure... but again, high RPM/high load it would run poorly as well. Look into the code 33 by wiggle testing the FP wires/ grounds, and checking for high current draw. A coupon for a free DVOM from Harbor Freight can check all that.

Theres a great cheat for replacing the FP in less than an hour, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. The cheap e-bay units are great!... for adding weight to your trash can. So if it doesn't say "WALBRO" on the side, PM Barrett to get one.

 

[fenderlvr]

Oops!
:upset:
Oh crap here's another one Do you know how to manipulate ECMSpy? If the answer is no, for ****s sake just STOP or you will be in a worse situation than you are now. Minus time and money, plus a bunch of frustration. Don't believe me? 1000's of threads to search. Exactly like yours. They usually end with a for-sale ad:down:

I know nothing about ECMSpy. I just thought it would be a good way to connect to the bike and look at codes and other things to help diagnose. Ultimately I wanted to see if it's stock or modified, not even sure if I would be able to tell from the program.

I've read a bunch of the posts that sound almost exactly like the one I just posted. They help give me a huge list of things to look at. That why I was posting here about my bike to see if I can get any more specific guidance, so far I have. Thanks.

What did the seller say about it's running condition? Did it test ride fine? What happened after? Any other mods? Has it sat?

I didn't test ride it which was probably dumb. I bought it as is after just hearing it idle. It idles fine. The guy said there's no problems, maybe he just thought this was normal. It was like this right away from leaving his house. He told me the bike was 100% stock, he didn't tune it.

Read the manual that 34nineteen gave you. There is a whole section on diagnosis.

I have downloaded this manual and have been reading it a lot. I haven't seen a lot of diagnosis sections. Are you talking about 1.20 Troubleshooting? There's one section about starts but runs rough. That's what I've been basing my current efforts on. Haven't gotten to everything on that list, #1 is spark plugs which I mentioned I'm planning on doing.

The rest of the manual is mostly just removal and installation instructions for a bunch of parts. That why I'm on here to try to diagnose this problem.

I'm going to try your things to do list.

I'm in San Diego.

 

[34nineteen]

Not really sure how you did the TPS reset properly without a "ecmspy cable" or Bluetooth module.


It's a 2009 model. No additional software required for TPS reset.

That’s right. I forgot the DDFI-3 bikes were like that.

So, you’re handsome and smart?

 

[Cooter]

Specifically section 4 (page 4-2) under fuel system has running issue diagnostic flow charts. Don't skip a step no matter how dumb it seems! The electrical service manual on the same link has good info. '08 bikes were very much similar enough. http://buellmods.com/content/downloads/manuals/2008_xb_electrical_diagnostics_manual.pdf

Yes, you can get into the ECM with ECMSpy for diagnostics. I find ECMDroid much easier to use, especially if you are learning. You can't really tell stock or modified fuel mapping, even comparing side to side. There can be some tell tales, but that's about it.

"100% stock" but holes in the airbox? Could have been done before he bought it. The later bikes did have square holes in the inner airbox, the early ones didn't. None had jagged or round hole saw holes though...

Like this from the manual:


Not this:


You could try the "spark plug self cleaning feature" just for fun? Also in the manual. Maybe you get lucky. Removing them and putting in new ones is better though.

Man you'd be a lucky SOB if all it is, is that the seller fouled the plugs and didn't know. I'm rooting for ya:eagerness:

 

[fenderlvr]

Like this from the manual:

It's like this first photo. Guess it's stock. Other photos I saw didn't have these holes. I did think they looked too clean to be cut by someone.

Some of them were also taped shut, my friend told me to tape them all shut because we thought it was supposed to be closed up. But I have since removed all the tape.

With it completely assembled and idling, spray carb cleaner around both intake seals, if the idle changes, 34:19 is right.

I tried this on the right side by removing the plastic cover thing. Do I have to get in the left side too? Do you remove the scoop when you do this?

Mileage?

7500

 

[fenderlvr]

Given all this....what EXACTLY are you looking to accomplish here? The correct step-by-step process to establish a stock baseline and return this thing to decent running condition is reasonably simple. It's tedious and time-consuming but until proper steps received and followed, all else is a crap-shoot, with the likelihood of exacerbating an existing unrideable condition.

I just want it to run like it ran stock.

I'm not a person who can take a link to a manual and know exactly what to do. You say it's a simple step by step process but from my perspective finding out those steps is the hardest part. I can do the steps with enough reading in the manual and Googling. I just don't know what to do first. But I think I'm getting good guidance in this thread so far.

 

[fenderlvr]

Specifically section 4 (page 4-2) under fuel system has running issue diagnostic flow charts. Don't skip a step no matter how dumb it seems!

The 2009 service manual doesn't have anything (even in 4-2) except torque specs and removal and install of parts. I clicked on an older one and it has WAY more info.

 

[Cooter]

Like I said, you'll be OK with an '08 manual. Even '07 and earlier. The DDFI-2/DDFI-3 changes that relate to your issue were only intake, cam to crank sensor, and ECM.

Don't worry about being so far down the wormhole. Do the checks we listed (plugs/intake seals) and post up the results here. We'll take you step-by-step, be be aware of the golden rule!

'The answer can only be as good as the question'. Details matter

 

[34nineteen]

Hey man. I know I don't know anything about this bike. That's why I'm on here looking for help from people like you who actually know stuff. The other people are actively trying to help me. You could too if you wanted. I'd really appreciate your help instead of just ****ting all over my thread.

Here’s the best advice you’ll get : cut your losses, sell it and go buy a new motorcycle with a warranty. You’re in over your head.

You’re down to 2 people trying to help now. You’d better listen to Barrett and CoOter if you want to figure this out.

 

[cvc]

34 cut him a little slack. It sounds like he is taking advice and baby steps to be cautious. Just because he hasn’t done or doesn’t know shouldn’t keep him from trying and learning.

 

[cvc]

Unless you’re interested in the bike, then I hope I didn’t screw it up for you.

 

[34nineteen]

34 cut him a little slack. It sounds like he is taking advice and baby steps to be cautious. Just because he hasn’t done or doesn’t know shouldn’t keep him from trying and learning.

I'm cutting him tons of slack. You are more than welcome to jump in and show him the way.

I'm going step aside and watch him and his buddy try to tape up the intake seals from the right side of the bike.

Re-read the entire thread, and my advice of just selling the Buell and buying a NEW motorcycle (with a warranty) makes sense.

https://suzukicycles.com/street/2020/sv650x

 

[DieterVonCunth]

Had similar problems with my 03xb9, turned out to be the fuel pump so i rebuilt it and now it is seems to work fine. Still waiting for the spring here, lots of ice and snow on the roads still so I cannot test the bike.