running lean

[WhiskeyNick]

Hello everyone. I'm new to this forum. I have an 08 XB12R 16,000 miles K&N air filter. I've had the bike since August. Shortly after I bought it ( the same week) I noticed it would die or run like crap when I first start it and a DEAD spot between 4000 & 5000 rpm. I checked for an intake leak right away using propane and carb clean with no response to either. I did find that the Ex. valve cable wasn't adjusted and I adjusted it according to the manual. The Ex. valve is working, I verified this with holding the throttle wide open and turning the key on. I can see it open and close from the top of the muffler(stock). Recently I took the spark plugs out. The front was a 6R12PP and the rear was a 10R12X(what should be in the bike) The 6 being a hotter plug. both were WHITE with some pitting and yes on longer rides my inner right thigh felt like it was on fire. I replaced both plugs with NGK DCPR8EIX a direct cross of the 10R12X hoping it would be the fix I was looking for, it wasn't. For anyone wondering you can go to www.ngksparkplugs.com/part_finder/motorcycles and look up plugs for your bike. I don't have an engine light on and no stored trouble codes. From what I know your plugs should be a light chocolate brown color. So I started playing around with tunerpro rt. I found the o2 sensor was bouncing from .3v to .7v and hitting at .5v. The o2 sensor should read .48v and dip slightly below that briefly indicating ideal running condition. I replaced th o2 sensor, I took it for a 20min ride, and plugged it back in only to find the new o2 sensor(not from Harley) was bouncing from .1v to .8v. I checked again for intake leak and didn't get a response. The IAT was reading 3.21v which was close enough to the intake air temp of 86, I checked with an infrared thermometer( I live in Phoenix AZ). I tried checking fuel pressure but didn't have the right fittings but managed to spray fuel all over the towel I put under the gauge. It seems it has plenty of pressure. The previous onwer said it was replaced shortly before I bought it.
I'm running out of ideas why it could be running so lean. I have no idea if the previous owner tried tunning the ECM. What am I over looking? The pulse width on the injectors seemed normal at 4.22 milliseconds. the AFV I think was at 74.
Does anyone have a known stock map for BUEOD firmware?

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated

 

[ich]

The o2 sensor should read .48v and dip slightly below that briefly indicating ideal running condition.

this is of course ********, as the stock o2 sensor is a nb sensor. in cl the o2 signal fluctuates between 0 and 1.2 volts, depending on the mixture.

I'm running out of ideas why it could be running so lean.

simply because buells do not run lean.

 

[Matteson]

The only thing that occurs in a lean situation is that the ecm adds fuel to whole table to account for a lack of fuel. Unfortunately it can't add it too just one area and leave the rest of the map alone. Or if your too rich in an area then it takes fuel away across the whole board leaving you a little too lean. So if you have an improper base map the ecm is chasing it's tail trying to keep you at stoich.

 

[ich]

Or if your too rich in an area then it takes fuel away across the whole board leaving you a little too lean.

the ecm does not decrease afv in ol.in cl mixture is stoich anyway.

 

[Theycallmecrash]

the ecm does not decrease afv in ol.in cl mixture is stoich anyway.

I just accept your asinine posts as normal now. Seems youll never understand.

Anyways, buddy i have same bike and same issue. Havent had much time to attempt a correction, my last few data logging recordings indicate that my base stock map is rich when in cruising during closed loop. So the ECM makes the AFV lower generally taking fuel away from the entire map. So yes you can be running lean in parts of the map because another part of the map is rich....

So my proposed solution is to get your bike custom tuned, not a race map. If you reset your AFV to lets say 110, and ride it immediately bet it improves its drivability for a short time, until the ECM adjusts.

PS if ich continues to post ignore hes an ass hat who hides in a dark cubical writing himself love notes in binary. Pretty sure hes never sat on a buell in his life, or any motorcycle for that matter.

 

[snrusnak]

Everything matteson and lunatic said is exactly what I think as well. Need to have a good base map otherwise the adjustments across the whole board are pointless. Help one spot but hurt another(chasing your tail as he said).

 

[EricS]

Map is definitely off, I have a stock '07 with a K&N filter on it and the afv is 114.

The K&N will make it run the engine run lean so the ecm adds fuel but yours is instead taking even more fuel away making it extremely lean.

 

[WhiskeyNick]

Thanks to everyone except ich for your help.

What program are all of you using and is there anywhere I can find stock maps?

 

[EricZ]

You should not compare the AFV of one bike to another. It will vary depending on operating elevation and ecm configuration.

The AFV will decrease at higher elevations to account for lower air density.

If the A/F ratio is stoich, the O2 sensor signal will bounce back and forth from a low voltage (~0.1V) to a high voltage(~0.8-0.9). Your old O2 sensor was working just fine and so is your new one.

The next and ONLY thing to do is to reset your AFV to 100 and ride the bike. Once you have put some miles on it, check the AFV again. If it returns to a similar value as before, you know the fueling delivery is proper in the "learning closed loop" region. You can data log with TunerPro and review the log to see what the EGO correction does at different parts of the fuel map (map is rich if it drops much below 100 and lean if much above 100).

Stock maps work just fine for a simple air filter change AS LONG AS everything is in proper working order.

Read the ECMSpy tuning guide to understand how the Buell engine management works!!!

ECMSpy Tuning Guide

 

[snrusnak]

^listen to him he know's his stuff, very knowledgeable.

I found(at least from what I can gather/understand with my noggen) is that my stock map was very lean even with the bike 100% stock. The AFV constantly would rise and rise. I changed to the race map and it stays just over 100 now which if I'm correct means I have a pretty good tune. I also put a K&N air filter in it and didn't really see any difference. I then did the open airbox mod and it started running very bad, and the AFV started rising and rising again. I put the airbox back on and all is good again. One day if I can ever learn how to do a good tune I'll do the airbox mod and a muffler.

 

[ich]

So yes you can be running lean in parts of the map because another part of the map is rich....

ol learn will increase afv if o2 signal indicates a lean mixture.

 

[snrusnak]

lol

 

[Matteson]

I think Ich rules! He makes me laugh. I always wait for his response when we start discussing AFV and cl stuff The binary code **** is funny. Ich is basically our Sméagol!

 

[Theycallmecrash]

Matteson just made my day

 

[user_deleted]

I think Ich rules! He makes me laugh.

he rules? negative
he sux? affirmative

 

[Matteson]

I like weird stuff and rude people. Ich may just be that person. He definitely rules in that category.

 

[WhiskeyNick]

Here is a pic of my rear plug.
I did some data logging with tuner pro today but when I got back I realized when i closed the lap top it went to sleep.....stupid
I didn't change anythig before the ride, I wanted some good base info.
I will try it again tomorrow, I must say it ran really good today. Not once did it studdard between 4k - 5k, it did take 4 times to start and keep it self running.

I have not found how to set the AFV with tunerpro yet, anyone know how to?

 

[Matteson]

If youread the ecmspy tuning guide it is very clear that plug chops are not accurate for these bikes. But if that was on one of my bikes i would like to see it look more almond than white.

 

[WhiskeyNick]

I did read that in the ecmspy tuning guide about the plug chop. If it didn't have running issues and excessive heat I wouldn't be as concerned.

I did get some good data finally yesterday with tunerpro rt, now I just need to get a better understanding of it.
Not sure if it's possible but I think I might of changed my firmware. I thought for sure I had BUEOD had problems connecting yesterday and now it says BUEYD.

 

[Theycallmecrash]

You cant change the firmware with tunerpro so youre good. Serious problems would arise if you attempted to burn/upload using the wrong adx/xdf files.

As for understanding the data log, some research is required. Its not so simple that i could explain in a post. Good luck!