Seeking XB9 ECM Suggestions

[rkdw]

Hi all,

This topic has been talked a lot about in the past. I cant seem to find an answer to my specific questions though. I have browsed many old threads that lead to unknown links and possibly outdated info since most are from around 2011.

I am looking to buy a 2006 xb9 in my area. The bike has a Hawk exhaust, K&N, the breather/catch-can mod, and stock map. I cold started the bike first try and it ran great during idle and the 10 minute test ride that I did. I got to see the spark plugs that recently came out of the bike and they looked pretty ok, however, I am still a little worried about the bike being run without a re-map. Id like to map the bike with something close enough in the meantime while I read the ecmspy documentation and learn how to fine tune it myself. I have found maps online for 'Stock', 'Buell Race Kit', and 'D&D Exhaust' but nothing for the Hawk itself. Which leads me to my questions..

1. Do bikes with these mods normally run ok on stock map(maybe it was mapped by a previous owner)?
2. Is the Hawk exhaust more similar in design to the 'Buell Race Exhaust' or 'D&D Exhaust'? Would one of these maps work better with the Hawk than the other?
3. All you Hawk owners out there, what map are you running?
4. Is there a way to verify if the maps have been changed using ecmdroid?

Any help is much appreciated. Thanks

 

[Outlaw]

Visit IDS.com. They have the tune you need.

 

[Cooter]

You're in good hands rkdw, really good advise from both the guys above.

Plug n' play with IDS using the OE derived Buell Race map would be ideal.

Hawk is an empty can, and so is the Buell race can but it doesn't matter, you just need to get close and let the ECM do its job. The miracle of electronic fuel injection is that it will adjust itself, using it's own sensors, many times a second, and that is why fuel injection is better than carburetors.

1) You just said it ran fine and the plugs look good, why mess with it?. To be sure, Check your AFV. 100 (+/-10) is in the middle of its adjustment range to leave it alone. It will go +/-25 stock but runs poorly at those limits.
2) Buell race can is empty like your Hawk, but any aftermarket pipe tune will be close enough and better than the OE muffler tune (if thats what you have).
3) If you can find a "Hawk tune" it's going to be identical to a Buell Race tune.
4) You might be able to tell if it's been changed, and even compare fuel cells side by side, but you won't be able to tell what tune it was labeled as.

IMO, ride your new bike and enjoy it. IF theres something out of sorts, THEN pull out ECMDroid to diagnose the problem, IF that problem is tuning, THEN look into tuning.

 

[rkdw]

Thanks for all the replies :up:

@outlaw
Good to know the Buell race map will work with the Hawk. I was getting worried I wouldnt find a working one. Thanks man

@barret
Thanks for confirming the IDS. I think Ill buy that then I can mess with the oe unit in my free time. Never hurts to have a spare either.

@cooter
Well as the bike runs lean from factory I figure it must especially be lean with these mods, even without showing obvious symptoms. Or maybe I was expecting worse idk. I just want to keep the twins healthy and get on the pavement as riding season is starting here in wisconsin. So given these parameters, as long as the the AFV is not reaching numbers greater than +/- 10, the map will be able to deliver adequate fuel? Ill check on the AFV as soon as I get the android. Im excited to get that app.

 

[Cooter]

"Running lean from the factory" is not actually whats happening. It's not a mid-70's carburetor. Not worth your worry, The bike is running fine, you said it yourself. I'll go on record for an 'I-told-you-so' later:black_eyed:

Yes, the ECM is able to deliver adequate fuel. Again, not whats happening. It is not cruising down the street "Lean", because a muffler is on it. Sorry to confuse you with the figures, I only asked for that number as a clue to how the engine is actually running, slightly more accurate than a butt-dyno. NO worries either way.

PLEASE avoid "tuning" as your first mod (see countless threads why). You already said it runs fine, but seem awfully eager to paint a grey rock... grey.

Good luck buddy, here's the manual, it will answer all of your what kind of oil questions, primary level questions, and why you have a headlight out
Buellmods.com

 

[Outlaw]

Is it "grey" or "Gray" ?

 

[Cooter]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/gray-vs-grey-usage-difference
Just pick one. Sasha or Erin?

I weep for english-as-a-second-language people:upset: Can you imagine learning this complicated language?? Heck, most Americans are garanteed to brake there grate point at a restaraunt with a mispelled werd or too.

 

[rkdw]

@cooter
Thats great to hear and relives a lot of stress I was having Happy to know I wont have to do any big projects right away. It's funny you say that because carbs are exactly where Im coming from and Im used to those 70/80s bikes running lean af in order to make emissions. EFI is a nice change.

Out of curiosity, what is actually happening...why have I come across so many threads talking about the xb's ****ty fuel system and lean tendencies? And thanks for the manual, already had it saved:up:

 

[Cooter]

I'm a carb guy from way back as well:eagerness: IMO the Buell DDFI2-3 fuel injection system is rock solid and still works well, but remember it was designed 20 years ago! It gets a bad rap because of poor motorcycle maintenance, *unqualified modifications, and just being old tech in the time of i-phones now.

Since the ECM was jailbroken and 10,000 rookies got to mess with "tunes" it's been a ****show. Even worse "My bike sat for 5 years and now it runs like crap when I jumped it and went WOT down the street, I need to tune the injection to fix it!". NO dammit... FIX it, THEN tune it. (Sigh)

I can't begin to explain EPA regs for clean running in this post. Simply that it's not "running lean". That would make terrible emissions as well (HC). 95% of the time your bike is running in Closed Loop "part throttle cruise" where the ECM adjusts to keep the mixture perfectly stoic many times a second. Not lean, not rich, and the pipe won't matter because its not at max power. The ECM is adjusting constantly, many times a second, and well within the ECM's adjustment parameters.

In order for an engine to run "clean" it's not about using less gas (remember, lean=bad emissions). It's about:

1) Adding/subtracting gas slowly, so that most of it is burned in the engine and not sent out the tail pipe (bad emissions).
2) Using the minimum about of gas for acceleration (and WOT), so that most of it is burned in the engine and not sent out the tail pipe (bad emissions). Less gas than max power is what "they" mean by 'running lean, EPA BS...' but it isn't technically "lean".

Of course neither of these things is good for rapid engine speed changes or maximum power, so the solution is to change the Open loop fuel map for more gas on acceleration and more gas at WFO. In carb speak, it would be a bigger accelerator pump and bigger power valve. The main jets (Closed loop/cruising) stay the same, and cruising is unaffected. You are looking for an accelerator pump and power valve Map, lol.

*Oversimplification warning!* and I should mention that some believe tuning the Closed Loop targets richer (bigger main jets) help it running. I've pulled out too many black sooty plugs to believe that, and why would you need to add too much gas when you're just cruising?

Hope that helps!

 

[34nineteen]

I'm a carb guy from way back as well:eagerness: IMO the Buell DDFI2-3 fuel injection system is rock solid and still works well, but remember it was designed 20 years ago! It gets a bad rap because of poor motorcycle maintenance, *unqualified modifications, and just being old tech in the time of i-phones now.

Since the ECM was jailbroken and 10,000 rookies got to mess with "tunes" it's been a ****show. Even worse "My bike sat for 5 years and now it runs like crap when I jumped it and went WOT down the street, I need to tune the injection to fix it!". NO dammit... FIX it, THEN tune it. (Sigh)

I can't begin to explain EPA regs for clean running in this post. Simply that it's not "running lean". That would make terrible emissions as well (HC). 95% of the time your bike is running in Closed Loop "part throttle cruise" where the ECM adjusts to keep the mixture perfectly stoic many times a second. Not lean, not rich, and the pipe won't matter because its not at max power. The ECM is adjusting constantly, many times a second, and well within the ECM's adjustment parameters.

In order for an engine to run "clean" it's not about using less gas (remember, lean=bad emissions). It's about:

1) Adding/subtracting gas slowly, so that most of it is burned in the engine and not sent out the tail pipe (bad emissions).
2) Using the minimum about of gas for acceleration (and WOT), so that most of it is burned in the engine and not sent out the tail pipe (bad emissions). Less gas than max power is what "they" mean by 'running lean, EPA BS...' but it isn't technically "lean".

Of course neither of these things is good for rapid engine speed changes or maximum power, so the solution is to change the Open loop fuel map for more gas on acceleration and more gas at WFO. In carb speak, it would be a bigger accelerator pump and bigger power valve. The main jets (Closed loop/cruising) stay the same, and cruising is unaffected. You are looking for an accelerator pump and power valve Map, lol.

*Oversimplification warning!* and I should mention that some believe tuning the Closed Loop targets richer (bigger main jets) help it running. I've pulled out too many black sooty plugs to believe that, and why would you need to add too much gas when you're just cruising?

Hope that helps!

CoOter,

You have been warned about this before. Riders must purchase a special tool to determine this. Its $410.00USD+ship+sales tax.

I will grant you a pass this one time with a firm warning. No funny business or other subterfuge will be tolerated.

34nineteen
Super Moderator
[email protected]

 

[rkdw]

@cooter
thanks for the wisdom, very helpful

i’m going to get the bike now and hopefully an android within the next few days. will let ya know how it looks once i have the droid. but until then i’ll be gone riding))

 

[Cooter]

...subterfuge...

Says the guy that invented stalking!

rkdw: Have fun, these are super awesome machines and I'll always have a spot in my garage for one:love_heart: Please post some nice pics in the Pic thread, we love pics here and 34:19 probably owned it at one time in the past.
If you don't mind a suggestion:
As a new-bike-to-you don't let the excitement of a new toy make you forget the basics. Wash it, really well! That will get you familiar with it and up close enough to notice little things, like pitted fork shafts or leaks. Pushing it around can show you bad wheel or stem bearings, brake issues, belt issues.
Check air pressure, tire date codes, battery date code, flush the brake fluids (because NO ONE does that!:mad-new, check the brake pads, brake light, signals, air filter (or buy a KN from me:angel, adjust the suspension to factory starting point for your weight (then look up Dave Moss on You Tube to dial it in). LOTS of stuff to do before getting in the electronics of a "well running" bike.

 

[34nineteen]

Says the guy that invented stalking.

Don’t hate the playa, hate the game!

 

[rkdw]

Thanks guys. Finally, today is my garage day. Heading out to clean her up and do all pre-checks :up: Will post some pics once it's shining))

 

[rkdw]

So Ive put about 200 miles on the bike already and wow..best thing that money can buy.

Today I finally got an Android so I could check on that AFV like Cooter mentioned. It read 86.9 after riding about 50 miles today in 65F @ 1300FT. That seems especially low since the bike has Exhaust/K&N/breather mod, doesnt it? I was kind of expecting to see something like 110. The bike runs fine. I have nothing to compare it to really, but there are no problems, never stalls or hard starts..it does backfire a good bit on closed throttle engine braking, but that seems to be pretty common from reading here. I did nothing other than connect and read through the values. No changes or resets.

Any suggestions on things to check for that may cause a low AFV? Possibly other values in ecmdroid that could indicate something?

PS. Bike was previously titled in MN, @34ninteen was that you?

 

[Barrett]

That seems especially low since the bike has Exhaust/K&N/breather mod, doesnt it?

yes
thread commenced with "i believe.....stock mapping". you'll never know till you confirm. you have no base-line to work with.

it does backfire a good bit on closed throttle engine braking, but that seems to be pretty common from reading here.
not as common as the internet has lead you to believe. address that. it's annoying and unnecessary.
pull fuel from "decel".....closely and competently check entire exhaust system for loose fittings...cracks...broken clamps...broken front hanger mount...crack at O2 sensor bung. air leak anywhere in this system exacerbates after-firing.

O2 sensor performing its swan-song

 

[34nineteen]

34ninteen was that you?

I think all of my ex-bikes currently live in AZ or CA. I see them pop up for sale from time to time.

 

[Cooter]

...for more money...

 

[34nineteen]

Yeah, a lot of them have been put back up for sale for more money than I sold them for.

When I sold my first 1125CR, the guy told me some sob story about how he always wanted one and all he had was $xxxx. I bought his story and sold him the bike at his lowball price. Not even a week later he had it back up for sale for $500 more than I had it originally listed at. So, yeah...lesson learned.

 

[rkdw]

Thanks for the advice Barrett.

I’ll check these items and get back to you guys with the findings. May take a lil while cause I have company visiting now.
1. Verify if my map has been modified
2. Check exhaust for leaks
3. Replace the O2 sensor
4. Verify temp sensors are working
5. Clean air filter

What exactly does the ECM need to compute a new AFV value, riden at a specific rpm/tps, or will idling compute a value?

@34 too bad. that would have given me some insight into what has been done with this thing