Static Timing

[ElMonkey]

Hey everyone.

I've got a long story to tell that I'll try and keep short. Coming out of the winter I decided to install a Jardine pipe, high flow air filter and change the oil on my '04 XB12S. I managed thru this job without any issues and burned an '04 race map via ECMspy. I did the breather re-route last year, so I thought all was going to be cool.

Started up the bike and it was awesome. Sounded great, and ran great. The only thing I noticed was that the bike stalled once or twice on start-up over the next few rides, so I thought I'd bump the idle up. I did this and again things seemed good until coming off the freeway and the RPMs wouldn't drop to idle when I rolled off the throttle (did eventually but took coaxing).

With this behavior it seemed like the next best step was a TPS reset. Did this that evening anticipating a ride the next day. I woke up to find the bike wouldn't idle. It would crank and try for a few seconds but chokes out.

While it was trying to run it smelled heavy rich and eventually backfired. I started to think that maybe the plugs were fouled, so I pulled them and sure enough they were black (BOTH of them). Maybe a little wet. Since I changed the oil I thought I might have over filled it and have oil blowing past the seals, but the level looks good.

I replaced the plugs and get the same result. Following the trouble shooting in the service manual I've checked the new plugs for spark, the plug wire resistance, the ignition module resistance and the static timing.

Everything checks out OK but the static timing bugs me. I've followed the instructions in the service manual and ECMspy but something seems wrong between what I'm reading and what ECMspy is shows. The way the manuals read, there should be two alignment markings on the flywheel, one for the max compression position of each piston. The manuals suggest that the timing sensor output that displays on ECMSpy (0-green and 5-red) is supposed to change state only when the flywheel marking goes over center. What I see is that the state does change when the marking goes by, but it continues to toggle 0/5 multiple times between the markings (and this is with my slow manual pushing of the rear wheel in 5th gear). This makes me think that my timing sensor could be bad and is trying to constantly trigger the plugs, but if it's as bad as it seems I don't think the bike could possibly run at all.

Other tid-bits:
I've tried running it briefly without the airbox installed just in case there was some issue on the air intake - no avail. I got to thinking about what would happen if my breather re-route got clogged, so I vented that mod just in case. The bike did idle for almost a minute once I did that, but still won't really run. I have not checked the cylinder compression.

I'm stumped. The biggest thing that bugs me from what I've seen so far is the static timing test because it seems wrong, but I'm a complete novice hack and honestly don't know what I'm doing.

There's my long story... Please help! I'm about to push this thing to the Harley shop around the corner but I don't want to miss something obvious.

Thanks much in advance.

 

[Sirius815]

First note, if you turn the idle up too high, the revs will hang as you have described.

Second, do the TPS reset again and/or have someone close come over to your house and help you out. Seems like after you tried adjusting the static timing everything went south.

 

[ElMonkey]

I've reset TPS multiple times over the past few days with no improvement. Ironically, everything went really south (won't idle/run) after doing the first TPS reset. But all of the TPS #'s look good according to ECMspy (right set point and behaves well while moving the throttle).

I didn't actually adjust the static timing - I only did the diagnosis per ECMspy and the service manual.

 

[Stevenc150]

Replace plugs with NGK# DCPR9EIX and after bike is fully warmed from a nice ride - set idle 950 rpm & reset TPS properly.

 

[ElMonkey]

Nevermind...

I came across some helpful commentary in the service manual that describes the fact that there are six tangs on the rotor cup that block the magnetic field to the cam position sensor - so for each full rotation of the cam you should see six sensor transitions. I didn't count, but that sounds about right.

So that's not it.

Reading other threads on badweatherbikers makes it seem like an intake manifold leak (because of the RPMs not dropping before everything went south). Though whatever the problem is I think it's effecting both of my cylinders because both plugs were fouled. This leads me to reconsider the gas from winter storage... I've filled up the tank that was half full with premium and added some stabilizer, but hasn't seemed to help.

 

[Midnight82]

Where did you get the map that you burnt to you ECM?

Could be a bad map.


Also, to check for an intake manifold leak, press your palm over the throttle body intake and try to start the motor. if it runs then you know it's pulling air from elsewhere (leak)

 

[ElMonkey]

I got the map from someone who gave me ECMspy. I checked it against another source before burning it. The bike did run for a few days with this map installed.

I'd love to do an intake manifold leak, but I can't get the bike to idle for more than a few seconds... This should also make the bike run lean and when I pull the plugs they are wet.

 

[jasonxb9]

I say try putting the map back to the stock one and try that. If it runs the. You know it is the map, maybe a glitch happened while loading the race map. Keep in mind that if you load the stock map the bike may run like crap, but then you know what to do. If that is the problem I would try tuning it instead of using the race map, you will get a better map that way.

 

[CrazyTexan]

I'm totally grave digging this one up, The OP seems to not be a regular buellXB poster, But I'm going through the exact same thing with my brothers 07XB9. Ran fine, RPM's started jumping from idle to command (wrist command) So plugs were changed to the NGK's. Proper gap, made no difference, Did a TPS reset twice, No difference, Checked EVERY wire, EVERY fuse, ADDED a ground to the coil and to the rear cylinder valve cover JIC. It ran for a 3 minute ride up to 4500RPM @ 60 (used to not allow past 2300rpm w.o stalling and backfiring before shutting down on the highway) Pulled the plugs, There extremely wet and black smell like gas and sea foam. Cleaned plugs, re installed, wouldnt idle for even 10 seconds before a deafening backfire and then die. I cannot check for intake leaks w.o it idling. I will check static timing this weekend when I get the ECM cable back from 100thwindow, But I'm questioning how does the static timing even get out of wack??? The symptoms match the static timing being off from what the manual says, But this is turning into one long ass nightmare. I've searched google on every symptom we've seen and I need some new thoughts and ideas from someone whos not as pissed off or stressed. Sorry for the rant and long story but Need some help fellas. Sucks having two bolts in the garage and only I can take mine out.

-Zach-

 

[CrazyTexan]

Also tried a new/used coil and wire I bought on fleabay, and I read someone had a bad stutter power loss problem from an ignition switch, WHICH we tried a spare one, and also a kick stand safty switch which this bike is not even equiped with. [mad][mad]


EDIT: Bike is 07 XB9 Jardine, K&N, Stock Map. will flas Race map once we can get it to run again

 

[rchuff]

Do tps reset then go to AVF and bump it from 100 to 115 start bike and take for ride . Ride bike at 40 mph to 60 mph no hard acceleration and bike will reset values. Get bike warm if you can before doing tps reset.

 

[rchuff]

set idle when bike is at operating temp.