I'm looking into doing a Hammer Performance 1275 kit, .560 cams, new clutch, and exhaust for my '03 xb9r... I'm wondering if I'm going to have problems with the stock crankshaft after those mods. Also, would love current recs for exhaust. I know there's a lot of threads about this already, but opinions change and new products are developed so I'd love to know what everyone is into right now. Currently taking a hard look at drummer. Will a slip on do anything for me? Does most of the resistance come from the muffler? Only asking because I'm pretty sure there's no cat... Should I upgrade the ECM to an EBR or can I just flash new mapping to the current one? The bike's been sitting for a few years, and I'm definitely looking forward to getting in the garage and giving her a glow-up. I'd appreciate any insight y'all might have regarding any aspect of this project.
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stock crank with 1275 kit
- Thread starter Pandemic
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34nineteen
Well-known member
It seems like a lot of money to make a little more power. The .560 cams are only slightly more aggressive than the stock Buell cams. I'm pretty sure the 1275 kit yields the same CR as the Buell setup. Maybe .25 more? I didn't see any mention of headwork, which may negate the potential increases in power also. I'd at least go for their Impact headwork.
Its not like you're converting an 883 Sportster to 1275 and looking to pick up a LOT of power for that same amount of money, as most of the Buell stuff is pretty "high performance" already.
As far as remapping, what do you have in mind? Its not like you can just plug in a PV for a Sportster and start making changes or drop in a Sportster map. I'm not saying it can't be done, but finding someone who can actually do it (and do it right) maybe a lot harder than you think.
You may want to run this by the crew at Hammer. Aaron, Dan and the crew have done a lot of testing of various 1275 setup and it won't be their first rodeo with an XB either. They have detailed several packages (by HP) with what parts are recommended to make XX HP, along with a cost breakdown. It sounds like you are looking at something along the lines of their 90+hp kit. I think stock XB's made about 85-90hp on the dyno, and closer to 90hp with a Drummer. There is an "exhaust shoot out" article written up from year ago, and while most of the exhaust manufacturers are long gone, Drummer, Dean Adams and a small handful of others still remain. Kevin at Drummer (KDFab) is awesome to work with and does great work. The stock Buell muffler works great as it is, but it also had to work out EPA regulations and other restrictions to be legal on the bikes, whereas everyone elses are "legal for non-highway use".
I'm not saying your idea wont make more power, but is it going to be worth the money?
The stock crank should be OK, and the 08-up crank would be a better choice, but they are basically unobtanium anymore. You could also send out your stock crank to Darkhorse or another shop for rebuilding/lightening/balancing, but that will really blow the budget out of the water. And if you're going to go through that much trouble and split the cases, you may as well look into the 90" kits. And remember, before the 2008-up crank was introduced, all the HP stuff was done to the 1.25" crankpin cranks without a second thought.
Our forum bad-ass Mike Lowary did something very similar, and the end result was legendary. It was not cheap, it was not expensive. It was outrageously expensive. Is it worth it to you?
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I get what you're saying about the 1275. I had some concerns about that as well- with respect to if it was going to be worth it. They recommended the .560 cams and I wasn't sure why. Maybe it's a clearance issue... I looked at the kits that weren't bolt on but I was gonna see if I could not split the cases. Then I got concerned about the crank. I tried looking for crank failures due to aftermarket mods, but I couldn't find any. I wanted to check in here just to be sure. I got some quotes from hammer, and yeah.. it's not cheap. That being said it might be worth it to me to go all out. It needs some top end work at the moment, so I figured if I'm going to get into it I might as well do some mods. Essentially, I want to do something aggressive and I have a decent budget. I'm either gonna do this project or buy a new speed triple, and for some reason I want to do this more. I've been told this makes no sense. Definitely planning on discussing it further with the guys at Hammer. I'm just trying to get a better idea of what I'm looking for before I go back to them. Mike sounds like someone I need to talk to...
As far as the ECM goes, Hammer does have an initial MAP. I have a buelltooth. I just wasn't sure what the EBR ECM had that the one I have doesn't.
As far as the ECM goes, Hammer does have an initial MAP. I have a buelltooth. I just wasn't sure what the EBR ECM had that the one I have doesn't.
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Cooter
Well-known member
Mike Lowary
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Cooter
Well-known member
Your '03 will never fit an EBR ECM. Completely different injection system, functions, and wiring harness. If you mean "Race ECM", any old DDFI-2 ECM hardware like yours is identical in every way, and there is a common "Race" fuel map to use, but you'll want one with a BUE-2D firmware as that was the latest firmware and easiest map to find.
None of that matters ^^^^ if you are putting a fuel map in for a 1275. I have no idea if Hammer has severe firmware versions of that map, so you may be buying a DDFI-2 ECM with BUE-2D firmware in it, just to load their map. IDspd.com
What 'top end work' do you need? Intake seals? Meh, 1 hour job. Rear rocker box gasket? well ya, your close to pulling the jug anyway but still seems a long excuse for a might-as-well. Will the stock crank take it? I'd take their word over some internet dweeb named Cooter.
The people saying it is expensive, not much (if any) gain, a ton of work, and not really that special either... are right. You do you man, we can't always pick what we like
...but...
Buy a Speed Triple. They are amazing.
None of that matters ^^^^ if you are putting a fuel map in for a 1275. I have no idea if Hammer has severe firmware versions of that map, so you may be buying a DDFI-2 ECM with BUE-2D firmware in it, just to load their map. IDspd.com
What 'top end work' do you need? Intake seals? Meh, 1 hour job. Rear rocker box gasket? well ya, your close to pulling the jug anyway but still seems a long excuse for a might-as-well. Will the stock crank take it? I'd take their word over some internet dweeb named Cooter.
The people saying it is expensive, not much (if any) gain, a ton of work, and not really that special either... are right. You do you man, we can't always pick what we like
...but...Buy a Speed Triple. They are amazing.
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34nineteen
Well-known member
Did you read the website and look at the cost analysis example for the 90+hp kit. Its about $3000.
Probably because without headwork, anything more would be pointless or detrimental. And the 560s, I believe are bolt in.
Cranks used to fail with stock motors, especially around 2006-2007. That said, someone kept a log of crank failures on the other forum, and when compared to the grand scheme of things with total production for those years, it was still 1%. If there was a problem in production, I'm sure all of the "faulty" ones have failed by now. Yours is 20 years old.
And those Hammer builds don't address the crank at all. If they felt crank work was mandated to withstand that power, they would have put it in the quotes.
I dont know what you mean by "decent budget", but the 120hp kit is $5500. Are you really wanting to put that much money into something that is worth about $4000 if its in mint shape?
I would, but I'm not a very smart person (Shut up CoOter!).
GREAT IDEA!
Cool, just realize in the end you will have more money into a bike that will get its clock cleaned by a Speed Triple
Duh. Without going deep into existential questions such as "What is love?", I'm going to stick with logic and go with "Duh". But it does sounds like a fun journey.
Good idea.
"Your answer can only be a good as the question you ask". I heard this from someone.
I love Mike. He just texted me this weekend about the new fuel injection on his XB and it sounds a-maze-balls. Magnesium Mike went waaay off the deep end with his build, defying all logic, but he seems to be enjoying it. He is on the FB group.
An initial map is one thing, but make sure you find someone who can fine tune it. Make sure to find someone who knows Buells and is well versed with the DDFI-2 injection. Too many times a Buell has been brought to a mechanic who was unfamiliar with them and did more harm than good.
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Barrett- Thank you so much for this... while pondering this overhaul I've had a gnawing concern that the '03 was the first gen and they started making changes to critical elements the very next year... I put it out of my head because I didn't want to make excuses for not taking on the project 4 years ago (by project I mean fixing the initial issues and doing some cosmetic stuff). Aaron basically told me that the overhaul on the '03 xb9r wasn't really gonna be worth it. Please note that he didn't actually say that... it was a subtextual vibe.
The thing is I'm fairly certain that I have a ring and/or valve situation. I had performance issues right after I got it (I bought it knowing wasn't perfect). I had significant fuel/oil contamination.. more than blow-by. Looking back it was probably partially due to the bike sitting for so long before I got it (now it's sat for even longer). The guy who owned it said that, when he did ride it, it wasn't a lot. Condensation in crank case, etc..right?
Cooter, I had no idea what you were talking about 4 years ago when you told me that the bike needed to run for enough time to evaporate the gas/water in the crankcase and then I read it in the manual yesterday. Felt super dumb for not having done my research.
Y'all were super helpful back then. You guys said fuel pump, I buelltoothed and ran the check engine light diagnostic, got a 33 code, and then rebuilt it (I have zero desire to ever remove that thing again... jus sayin'). I also cleaned injectors (o-rings replaced). Nevertheless the problem persisted. Is it reasonable to think that, because the bike had been operating with insufficient lubrication- due to the fuel dilution- for an indeterminate amount of time, the top end might be... I dunno... in subpar condition? that's where my head is at- diagnostically speaking. I haven't rushed to this conclusion... I have checked and cleaned my grounds like a good girl; however, when you hear hoofbeats think horses not zebras, right?
the reason I started looking into this project is I figured if I was gonna take apart the top end of a 20 year old motorcycle it'd be nice to put it back together again with something' zesty. However, I'd love your opinions as to if the bike is worth putting money into. For example, is an '08 xb12 just a better bike?
Cooter- I have a 2015 triple, it is amazing. Absolute beast. The mapping situation gave me pause- Aaron said they provide spark advance table specs set to the manifold vacuum that I would need to convert to the DDFI format. Initially I thought that wasn't gonna be a big deal (maybe it isn't) because I'm comfortable with the ecmspy software, and then I realized I had absolutely no idea what that meant, and I haven't been able to google my way to an answer. With respect to the time/effort involved in the top end situation- I hear what you're saying. It's not the end of the world. Despite my having confidence in my mechanical abilities, I don't think I can do it in an hour.
34- Thank you for addressing my crank concerns. Yes, I know the triple will always beat the xb. That being said, I have a thing for naked sport bikes and I think Erik Buell is the ****. And yes, the heart wants what the heart wants. I got quotes on the kit... My conversations with Aaron left me thinking that if I had an xb12 it'd be worth it and rewarding... but I don't...
Thank you all. I'm sorry it took me so long to respond. I have been doing a lot of reading, but didn't check the thread. Won't make that mistake again.
cvc
Well-known member
I have spent more to get less because I could And I wanted it.
You aren’t going to make money on that bike but if it blows up your skirt and makes you smile then go for it.
You aren’t going to make money on that bike but if it blows up your skirt and makes you smile then go for it.
DamMechanic
Well-known member
Buy a used EBR and still be in the Buell family.
Coming from Japanese / Euro bike world I've always heard Harley guys talk about "Screamin' Eagle" this or that, all the power they're making, the "big builds" they've done, etc. I just assumed they were making massive gains. Now that I"m a bit deeper in Buell / Harley world a bit I'm surprised at how much it costs for so little gain. Basically a Buell is a "maxxed out" Evo. Exhaust, tune, that's about it. No reason to look at anything else because the returns diminish so quickly. And if you're a Sportster guy used Buell parts are far and away the best value for the dollar. Now I understand why Buells were vultured off by Harley guys looking for hop ups. It makes it easy to enjoy my Ulys as-is, knowing that engine is at the peak of it's cost-effective maximum output.
And as much as I like Buells (started with an S1 in the late 90's, then an S3T in the mid 2ks, recently picked up several XBs), my interest in the brand drops off dramatically post XB. The Rotax powered bikes do basically nothing for me. I'd look for a Ducati, Aprilia or KTM before I'd be interested in a Rotex Buell. Which is a bit ironic because that's when Erik finally started to build the bike he wanted to build from the start. The air cooled bikes just have a "soul" for me.
Which, BTW, may be exactly why HD guys throw so much money at so little power!
Barrett
Well-known member
Basically a Buell is a "maxxed out" Evo. Exhaust, tune, that's about it.
Horribly wrong and completely nonsensical. An XR1200 engine is generally considered to be that in production architecture and appearance. Buell XB engines share very little with production XL engines. Danny and I have stayed in contact since I retired from Harley Davidson. Please watch this and learn XB basics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3BcMKN-2Nk&t=378s
Horribly wrong and completely nonsensical. An XR1200 engine is generally considered to be that in production architecture and appearance. Buell XB engines share very little with production XL engines. Danny and I have stayed in contact since I retired from Harley Davidson. Please watch this and learn XB basics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3BcMKN-2Nk&t=378s
