Trouble shooting help!

[Noeboo]

I believe my intake seals are bad but I will explain my problem to get everyone's opinion. Two weeks ago on a slightly hotter than average day the bike started running a little rough when cruising, it was surging around a bit, not a big deal. Then at a stop light when I hit the throttle she backfired through the throttle body then stalled. it did this twice then after sitting for two hours it wouldn't idle. I adjusted the idle screw all the way and had no issues after that. Next day I reset the TPS and had no issues rode over 500 miles the next two days perfectly fine. bike sat for 1 and 1/2 weeks then I rode it about 150 mile and it started surging widely. the RPMs would stick down low then surge way up while cruising, at the first stop light, luckily only a mile from home, it died completely. With a handful of throttle I got it started and limped home in first gear sputtering and popping. Today I put in new NGK DCPR9eix s (old ones were shot and completely white), cleaned throttle body (by hand no solvent). Still it would start but not idle and if i gave it throttle it would backfire through the throttle body and inspected throttle with a puff of white smoke. Did a TPS reset and same thing happened when i started it to adjust the idle. It sounds like what people are describing happens when intake seals go. What do you think? If so how hard are they to replace?

05 XB12R
22K miles
Race ECM
Race Pipe
K&N air filter
Air box delete
breather re-route
DCPR9EIX

 

[Noeboo]

Ok! I took another look with ECMspy and the AFV was at 80% so I reset the AFV now it starts and idles for about 5 seconds then stalls out. If I crank the idle wayy up it will run on its own but it is very very rough. I ordered new plug wires and will change all fluids this coming week. Any thoughts?

 

[Noeboo]

 

[jetlee]

Instead of trying to bandage it with changing the idle speed...just replace the intake seals...

 

[ReadyXB]

Ok! I took another look with ECMspy and the AFV was at 80% so I reset the AFV now it starts and idles for about 5 seconds then stalls out.

Hi Noeboo, you could have multiple issues, but at least one problem is that the ECM is reducing fuel by 20% based on the O2 sensor feedback while at cruising throttle. In other words, it sees a 20% rich condition coming out the exhaust.

I would suggest recording a datalog session while idling and cruising. The longer, the better.

 

[Noeboo]

OK I'll see what I can do next week as far as data-logging. I am not replacing the intake seals yet because I am working in a gravel parking lot with limited tools. Also I would like to hold off on rotating the motor until I have time and money to do more work than just the intake seals.

 

[jetlee]

I didn't need to rotate my motor to change the seals.

Just saw the 80% comment, put some injector cleaner through a tank of fuel; you may have a stuck injector. Also inspect the wires leading to the rear injector checking for bare wire that could be grounding and causing the injector to open.

Remember that the O2 sensor is only reading from the rear cylinder.

While the engine is idling stable, spray starting fluid around your intake seals. Use a straw so you can get around one at a time. If your idle rises, you have a leak; if not, you don't.

It only takes a very tiny spray of fluid, keep in mind the stuff is flammable so you don't want to go coating your engine in it.

 

[Noeboo]

OK i'll check all those out. I never thought of an injector. I doubt one is clogged I use seafoam every 3-4th tank and only non-ethanol 91. But I will add some seafoam and definitely check the wiring. It looks like it would be a very difficult job to change the seals without rotating it but I guess if nothing else fixes it it is worth a shot. I will be pulling the bike inside over winter and was hoping to hold off on the seals until then. I'll test the seals on sunday or monday to see if they actually are leaking. Thank you for your help.

 

[jetlee]

Lucas Oil Fuel Injector Cleaner is better for cleaning, imo.

 

[Noeboo]

I also commonly run lucas octane booster which has injector cleaner in it.

 

[jetlee]

So you're running Lucas Oil Upper Engine Treatment and Seafoam?

 

[Noeboo]

not at the same time

 

[jetlee]

Probably want to change your O2 sensor then just run fuel without additives.

Running too much additive or too often can coat your O2 sensor in an oily residue (Seafoam will do this) which then attracts more carbon and deposits and clogs your sensor.

Additives are not fuel.

-Edit-
Looking at your photos of ECMSpy, looks like your EGO Voltage is .49V, which is normal, so your O2 sensor should be fine. Something to consider though.

 

[Noeboo]

Will do, I don't think I'm running them often enough to cause an issue. I even measure out then exact amouts when I am running them. I'm fairly precise when it comes to fuel additives. When you're dealing with only 3.7 gallons there isn't much room for error.

 

[Noeboo]

I got the bike idling enough to try and test the intake seals but spraying them with carb cleaner seemed to have no effect at all. However she still idles rough as **** and stumbles, then pops through the throttle body about every five seconds. I'm gonna try and replace the seals without rotating the motor, looks like it shouldn't be too difficult to do.

 

[jetlee]

While the engine is idling stable, spray starting fluid around your intake seals.

spraying them with carb cleaner seemed to have no effect at all. However she still idles rough as **** and stumbles, then pops through the throttle body about every five seconds

Why do I even try ...

 

[Noeboo]

Are you going out of your way to ridicule me?

This is not my first rodeo. I have tested vehicles for vacuum leaks before, carb cleaner works just fine. As you said it only takes a little bit and it is flammable so it is important to be careful. Carb cleaner is slightly less volatile than starting fluid and in my opinion therefore a little safer to use on a hot air cooled motor. I've actually seen wd-40 work to test for vacuum leaks. The main issue I am having is the unstable idle and you are saying that I must get it idling stable in order to test why it is idling unstable? The way my vehicle is idling and the position of the intake manifold is one of the reasons I put off testing for a leak to the last step because I assumed it would not be successful. I believe I have narrowed it down to the intake seals without knowing the results of the test. Plus my vehicle is in the range that they would be going bad anyways so I'm just gonna go ahead and replace them.

I am unsure whether you are more motivated to help me or to ridicule me. Either way I hope that the troubles I am having with my motorcycle and the actions I am taking to remedy them can help to raise your self-esteem.

If you sincerely wish to help me then I am going to ask that you stop going out of your way to try and ridicule me. I am not very experienced with Buells and I live a couple hundred miles from the only competent Buell mechanic I know. I genuinely need help figuring out the cause of my vehicles issues. What I do not need is to be ridiculed. Do you want this forum to be known for kindly helping people or for picking people apart trying to find something to ridicule them for?

 

[cartman]

I agree, carb cleaner is way safer than starting fluid. Another injector cleaner I like is Marvel Mystery oil, I mix a small bottle in a tank of gas about once a month.

 

[matter]

Use wd40 or something non flammable. You can lay it on heavy if you want to get to those hard to reach places. If it smoothes out or even gets worse, any change and it is likely seals. Take a look for the little vacumn fitting on the throttle body, supposed to have a rubber cap and it is common for them to rot off. Easy to see if you remove the airbox base. That is straight manifold vacumn and will give you a pretty good leak. Good luck!
Matt

 

[jetlee]

You seem upset about my comment. If you ask for help, then do something else, you should expect a little ridicule from the person that gave you the instructions in the first place. Two parts, smooth idle and starting fluid. So you substituted another flammable liquid, whatever, I also use LPG (propane) but don't figure everyone has an LPG torch on hand. Not having a smooth idle really makes the test insignificant, since you can't tell if there was any distinct change in rpm.

Marvel Mystery Oil will leave the same oily residue on your O2 sensor that attracts carbon and clogs it. For <$30 I still think you should consider replacing your O2 sensor, even if just preventative maintenance.

That rubber cap on the TB is not necessary. Many bikes came without one from the factory. My XB9 doesn't have one, runs like a top.

What does the running output of your ETS (Engine Temp Sensor) look like? I know that ETS failure can cause all sorts of issues, though it's an $85+ fix.

FYI-You will get ridicule from non-Buell owners. Better get thicker skin, soon.