tuning / race map help

[Marc83]

On to the next issue haha.. so just to explain, i have a 2007 xb12ss. roughly 5500 miles. Recent maint. is replaced o2 sensor, replaced sparks, oil change, cleaned IAC sensor and valve. Cleaned Throttle body. i have checked for leaks around the black plastic piece that the airbox plate goes onto but nothing. i have to check the actual seals when i get home. Can i use carb cleaner for this? Lastly i last night i added 4oz of seafoam when i filled up.

Now my issue, while running the stock map, every thing is fine. Now, i have loaded a race map, or tried 2 different ones i have. i have decided to try and keep the ECMDroid map i got from Dave. Then reset TPS. With either one, on a cold start, its really hard to start. Only way to start it is to give it a little gas (ive read this is really bad, so i apologize, is there anything i need to do since doing this?), it idles rough, and bogs down an dies. only way to keep her alive is to very slightly give it gas to help her idle at 1k. If i drive it a 1/4 mile or so, it really all goes away. But in that 1/4 seems like its mis-firing or something. surges and bucks as i am riding the idles up to about 4k. But once its warm, all these issues go away and shes as runs so smooth and strong.

after riding her for about an hour yesterday, i did a reset the TPS, and it started right up. i adjusted the idle since she was already warm at about 160-175ish to 1000-1100. idles good with an occasional jump to around 1200 then back to normal range i set it at. but when she sits over night an i go to start her everymorning, i have the starting issue, with surging if i try to warm her by driving her lightly for a mile or so.

And if i load the stock map, it fires right up. Should i just lose the power gained with the race map and just run the stock? or is there some type of fix for cold starts? Any other issues i have missed that could potentially be there?

Any pointers are much appreciated. :up:

Edit; Mods are hawk exhaust, k&n, breather w/ catch can, right side scoop.

 

[Chicknstripn]

If it runs well with the stock map just run that.
Im will to be that your power gains are minimal with the "race map". Usually map changes are done when a bike is modified and those mods cause a running issue. If there are no running issues to begin with just leave the map alone.
How long have you owned the bike and do you know if the "stock" map is actually stock?

 

[Marc83]

owned it a few months now. I dont know its a stock map, but i saved it as such prior to me adding mods. Bike was stock when i got it, with 3800 miles on it.

i did notice on the "race map" my AFV was dropping to the lowest point i saw 81. i kept changing it back to 100, but it would always drop to low-mid 90s. Bike is noticablly smoother running, and stronger with the map once its warmed up though. Kinda sluggish but issue free with the stock map.

ECM dave, the guy i bought the buell tooth from just told me to set my min/max AFV to 100, but i read here thats not a good way to tune your bike. Either or, i tried changing the min only to 100, still stalls on start up with same issues.

 

[lowkey]

Haven't been on in a while and first thing I did was see your PM and sent you what was requested... having said that it looks like you already got a hold on what you were after so I'll follow up here now that I see more details "i did notice on the "race map" my AFV was dropping to the lowest point i saw 81", this is because of the richer fueling than needed AFV is your indication to go back to what was working or have a custom tune done. "Only way to start it is to give it a little gas (ive read this is really bad, so i apologize, is there anything i need to do since doing this?), it idles rough, and bogs down an dies. only way to keep her alive is to very slightly give it gas to help her idle at 1k. If i drive it a 1/4 mile or so, it really all goes away. But in that 1/4 seems like its mis-firing or something." Again sounds like to much fuel to me.

"ECM dave, the guy i bought the buell tooth from just told me to set my min/max AFV to 100, but i read here thats not a good way to tune your bike. Either or, i tried changing the min only to 100, still stalls on start up with same issues." Sounds like a sure fire way to **** up a bike...


What is AFV reading on the stock map after resetting it to 100 and riding 50 or more miles? Above 90 - below 110? Stick with that one.

 

[Marc83]

I will have to re flash stock map and check. Honestly never started checking things until I flashed the race map. I will hopefully try it out soon, supposed to thunder storm tomorrow. Will post back in a few.
Thanks lowkey!

 

[lowkey]

Marc83 Also, just to elaborate on why the bike "seems" to be better once warmed up is there is set % of fuel being added to the fuel maps in both "stock" and "race" maps, think of it as a "choke" to get the bike up to operating temps. Your AFV of 81% (adjusted from 100) is roughly 19% of each fuel cell value being pulled out so this gives you an idea of how much to rich the fuel maps are.

 

[Marc83]

Thanks for that info Low, im def still in the learning process of figuring out how this bike operates.

so i ran the stock, live data showed a AFV of 110.4 while in the afctual AFV under configuration showed 104.2. Using ECM Droid btw. i did a quick data log with a hard pull then a small cruise toward the end. still trying to figure out all the programs i need to download to upload it correctly.

btw what is the setup used for the map you sent?

 

[lowkey]

AFV at 104 is perfectly fine, it will constantly fluctuate. In value. For datalogs you will want to look at EGO values compared to TPS value and the given RPM, this will show added or removed fuel value instantaneous whereas AFV is the accumulation of these value over the entire map thus adding or subtracting a blanket % value over the whole map (-19% in your case).

Setup? I sent the same file in .txt and .xpr so any program you have you now have a compatible file. This is just the stock "race" data made to work on a non race ECMID specifically the BUEID model in this case.

 

[Marc83]

can you or anyone possibly take a look at this file on MLV and lmk what you think. Currently this is kinda beyond me to comprehend what is really going on.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwMGs34lvh5kaFBhdkZ2UEg0TWM/view?usp=sharing



with the map is it for a stock setup or configured with an exhaust and k&n? curious if it will mesh well with my setup (hawk/k&n/breather mod). if its for a stock set up i may still give it a go figuring i am now running a stock map with my mods anyhow. Hopefully i can eventually find someone in my area that can tune

Edit; picture is worthless, its soo small

 

[Marc83]

Lowkey. Tried out your map. Seems to run good. Took care of the starting issue that was present on the other race maps I had. Rode for about 30 miles and AFV was at 110. Could a high reading indicate a problem mechanically or it will continue to fluctuate based on numerous conditions and is nothing to seriously worry about?

 

[ReadyXB]

can you or anyone possibly take a look at this file on MLV and lmk what you think. Currently this is kinda beyond me to comprehend what is really going on.

The ECM is adding ~10-15% fuel in just about all areas that you logged. Even idle, which is closed loop, was quite lean. I wouldn't expect stock vs aftermarket exhaust or air filter to affect the idle fueling that much. If I were in your position, I would check for any intake leaks, and load the stock eeprom image and re-test.

Looking at a datalog alone isn't enough to confirm if your maps are stock or not.

 

[Marc83]

Thanks readyxb, alot for taking the time to check out that log!! that's what I was worried about. Race maps way too rich, stock map too lean. Checking for leaks what's best to use? Carb cleaner, brake cleaner, wd40 etc? Could the only thing to cause this issue be a INTAKE leak?
or are their other leaks i should check for as well?

Thanks!!

 

[gunter]

If a leak would provide 10% too much air, then idle speed would go through the roof, as the leak would not get smaller with dropping rpms.

 

[Marc83]

Idle speed? Please elaborate. For instance setting the TPS, would needing to adjust near 5.8 to get to 1050-1150 rpm be an example of what your speaking of? Or do you mean my idle speed at idle will just continue to rise?

 

[Marc83]

im just really confused as to whats going on. With a race map, its super rich, dipping to 80s-low 90s. stock its 110 in all ranges including my idle.
gonna test for the leak when i get home, and re-load my stock map and test again.

 

[Subarubrat]

How are you doing the TPS reset, if done wrong all sorts of odd behavior can happen.

 

[Marc83]

Tps reset I do as follows. Back it out til it reads 0. Back out an additional full turn. Snap throttle 3 times. Reset. Adjust to 5.8. Ride around a bit and adjust the idle to 1050-1100.

It's weird I noticed on the race map it took me adjusting it down to about 4.8 to get my idle to settle to around 1050 but on the stock map around 5.5ish. Is their normally a difference like this between maps?

 

[ReadyXB]

The service manual recommends propane for intake leak detection. But reading what you said about the AFV with the "race" map (I missed that part earlier), then it doesn't add up. Can't hurt to rule that out, though. Unfortunately, "race map" doesn't mean anything useful to me

One question about the datalog. It showed that your engine was at normal operating temperature/fully warmed up. I just wanted to be sure that was actually the case - that the temperature sensor readings were accurate.

I would really try to get a true stock eeprom image loaded, which as you said may not necessarily have been what was in the ECM when you purchased the bike. And if the bike drives ok, get as long of a datalog session as you can that covers cold start to fully warmed up.

There are some smart folks on the forum (such as Gunter and others that have chimed in). You've provided good details so far. Just keep in mind, all we have to go on is what you share with us!

 

[Marc83]

I tried testing the leak with carb cleaner. it was all i had on hand with out running to the store. Made my idle rise briefly and then drop a couple hundred below 1050 for a few seconds before it started idling consistent again. i do have a full gasket set for the whole engine so i may take the TB off and inspect the gaskets.

Yes the temp was fully warmed up, i turned it on about half way through a hour ride. i do have a longer data log which ill provide the link to, but this one i was worried i logged it too soon after reflashing the map, so i wasnt sure if the ECM was done learning.

on a side note, my bike does seem to have a small stumble even with the stock map. No where nearly as bad as the race map where it would stall and only start while applying throttle. Now it drops about 100-200 rpm about every 10-15 seconds. maybe normal, im just nor 100% sure. Also, with my TPS, the last few times i have reset it, i have noticed that once i do the actual reset on ECM Droid, and adjust it to 5-6 after zeroing it out, i dont have to adjust it any further, even after its been warmed up. Thought this was weird as i used to have to dial it down a bit once she warmed up.

i greatly appreciate everyones feedback, you guys ROCK!

 

[lowkey]

Marc83, Buy one of these cameras and you can have a look at the intake seals through the throttle body opening https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_9?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=snake+camera&sprefix=snake+cam%2Caps%2C212&crid=1UT98RNQG9315 It's never a bad idea to change them for piece of mind but the camera will also help make sure they are seated when replacing for new ones as well. Cometic or James "blue" gaskets are good choices!:up:

Something of note you say AFV was 110 with the Race/stock Hybrid files I sen't you huh? This is the same as you would get if you bought a "race" ECM so that is a total of 29% off from what your AFV was reading on another "race" tune before right? Makes no since...

Post the exact file you were running before and maybe the one you think is your stock one as well, If I find time I'll have a look for discrepancies.