Ulysses broken down - not getting fuel?

[Tollywood]

Hey guys.

I’ve had my Ulysses for a month and put on about 700 miles. It has 40,000 miles but looks brand new. When I bought it from the elderly gentleman he said that it has old gas in it from last year so it’s running a little rough but with fresh gas it should be fine. He was a professional motorcycle racer in his younger days and I know very little about motorcycles or how to fix them.

So, I put two ounces of fuel injector cleaner and used 91 octane gas, but the engine always had a slight hesitation. I checked the throttle grip and it does not have excess play. The hesitation does not move the RPM needle but I feel a very slight hesitation from time to time and when the throttle is held in place, just riding along at a steady pace. Occasionally I’m accelerating and it sputters, but not a crazy amount.

Last night on my way home from work I was climbing a slight incline at 3500 RPM, and it slowed down to 3000, then kept gradually fading lower until it stalled. My wife brought me some gas but that didn’t help. The battery is new. The engine oil and primary oils were just changed.

I was thinking that it feels like when your old car’s fuel filter dies and you lose power as it clogs and then dies.

Luckily, my friend picked me up with his trailer and now the bike is home.

Could you please tell me what you think it might be?

 

[Cooter]

You'll have to do a little testing or otherwise we're all guessing, just like you.

No dash lights came on? Check all your fuses. Check to see it has oil in it. I'm not really concerned about the level, just that theres some on the stick.

Take off the airbox cover(s) and spray carb cleaner, brakleen, starting fluid, or pour about an 1/2 oz of gas down the TB. Does it start now? If it does, a good guess would be you need a fuel pump.

 

[Tollywood]

You'll have to do a little testing or otherwise we're all guessing, just like you.

No dash lights came on? Check all your fuses. Check to see it has oil in it. I'm not really concerned about the level, just that theres some on the stick.

Take off the airbox cover(s) and spray carb cleaner, brakleen, starting fluid, or pour about an 1/2 oz of gas down the TB. Does it start now? If it does, a good guess would be you need a fuel pump.

View attachment 17007

Thank you very much. I was wondering if it might be a fuel pump. Someone here posted a beautiful fuel pump that they built. Was that you Cooter?

 

[Barrett]

FIVE potential components/faults that historically cause this problem on XB12 models.
The "elderly gentleman racer" knew there was an existing problem, not related to some stale fuel BS he conjured, and should have divulged same to you during the sale.

My pumps.

 

[Tollywood]

FIVE potential components/faults that historically cause this problem on XB12 models.
The "elderly gentleman racer" knew there was an existing problem, not related to some stale fuel BS he conjured, and should have divulged same to you during the sale.

My pumps.

View attachment 17013
View attachment 17014
View attachment 17015

Yeah, I am feeling a little taken advantage of because of his experience and knowledge of motorcycles, and this one intimately. I wrote him an email telling him what happened. In hindsight that should have been a red flag but I thought his expertise must be right about this and I know very little and I immediately liked him so I believed him.

I am eager to learn how to repair motorcycles though. I swapped out the gauges on my Electra Glide but the bike would know if I swapped the speedometer and it would disable itself. So, I used a razor to cut the faces off both speedometers, and then I glued the new face onto my original speedometer. I put the fairing back on and everything works. Also, I had a brand new Dodge Chally with a 392 Hemi. It was only two weeks old and I swapped out the stick shift for a Barton short shifter thanks to YouTube.

7261CA8E-AE43-4A03-92EF-1E58E5529C96 by Tollywood, on Flickr

The other day you posted a picture of one of your pumps and I thought to myself, I should buy one of those just to have it as a spare because you do such a nice job on them. Little did I know this would happen.

 

[Pushr0d]

You might also check to see if the gas cap is venting. While certainly not the same design as the old (90's) Harley's, I'd think it's possible you could have been drawing a vacuum on the tank.

 

[Kurlon]

The gas cap isn't the vent on XBs, it's a separate piece to the right of the cap, hidden under the airbox cover. That said, popping the cap of when it's died to see if you hear a hiss of vacuum, or if that suddenly gets the bike running again is a good thing to try.

 

[Kurlon]

I'm used to vented caps on other bikes, you can spot the breather hole(s) pretty easily. What is the vent path through the XB cap, as I can't find it, and bench testing my tank it's not allowing equalization through the cap currently?

 

[34nineteen]

Take it apart and see for yourself. Its really simple to do.

 

[Cooter]

Push out the little cross pin

 

[34nineteen]

Take it apart and see for yourself. Its really simple to do.

Its also helpful to do from time to time to clean the dirt and crud that accumulated in the mechanism. People have broken off keys trying to remove stuck or sticky caps.

You can get the lock cylinder out easily too, I was able to re-key mine.

 

[Cooter]

You're a dirt and crud.

 

[njloco]

I always thought that dirt and crud were the same thing, you Westerners always did talk funny.

 

[Kurlon]

Got my gas cap fully torn apart. That thing goes through some SEROUS heroics to not allow anything through, anywhere. I was thinking MAYBE it could wheeze through the keyhole but nope, that’s o-ringed too. The flap doesn’t fit tightly to the metal main piece, but the possible paths for air from there to get to the tank are either o-ringed (screw bosses) or the main seal washer. If that cap is supposed to breathe at all, I’m still not seeing how. I do have just a touch of white corrosion mostly from the lock tumbler so this will all get a cleaning before re-assembly. If any of this was exposed to fuel vapors I’d expect to see staining after 15yrs / 25k miles but nada.

To be thorough, I’ve also pulled the cap base off the tank as there was a suspisious notch on the left side around 7 o’clock, which revealed a hole through the side to the outside world. Sadly, this too is not our vent, it terminates ABOVE the cap base, which is o-ringed to the tank. Near as I can see, this is a path out for any water that might get around the outside of the cap in the rain. There are matching holes in the black plastic cap inner to prevent water from getting trapped under the flap hinge, blocked off from being a vent option by the main rubber washer. The screw bosses for the base are not through drilled, so no opportunity to vent there either.

At this point I’m willing to put money down that the gas cap is not intended to do any breathing in either direction.

 

[Cooter]

I'd agree with all that^^^

But not fer nothin'... I've had an issue with the EBR (same frame style and cap) where that little hole to the outside world for rainwater (or maybe gas spillage on fill ups?) would bleed gas out. Not a lot, and it would evaporate fast, but make a mess, and only on hot track days... but it convinced me to 8/32 tap it and use a tiny barb to run 5/32" poly line from it down to the belly pan.

Somehow gas was pushing past the o-ring of the cap, maybe just a crap seal? The tip over valve has a huge amount of flow, so I dunno? A new cap didn't fix it so I went with my solution and haven't thought about it since.

 

[Kurlon]

Rules go out the window when track/race time happens. These tanks have soooo much more surface area exposed to the heat of the engine compared to traditional designs that I'm floored they don't vapor lock and boil gas constantly.

 

[Cooter]

The XB's usually don't. The Rotax ones absolutely do boil the fuel. Lots of panicked posts from a gas station. 'Reads can' but gasoline is FLAMMABLE! It says right here! lol.

Harley always wanted to bend the laws of physics, because "it is better to look good than to feel good" and hobbled the Buell engineers because they didn't believe in seeing radiators. Well, 1125cc's making 146HP makes a lot more heat than a 1690cc making 86, so lets blow all that hot air right back on to the engine! It will be FINE! Don't worry, we'll just stick these little tinfoil bits to the inside 'walks away quickly'.

You wouldn't get vapor lock as it is a return style FI (and it's not the fuel lines that are getting the heat), but ya not ideal by a long shot.