Water pump housing seeping oil

[Mesozoic]

First off, I have to state my appreciation of the 1125CR. It is an absolute hoot to ride and handles incredibly, sounds awesome and has power wherever it's needed as long as it's above 4000 RPM. I have no idea how much power mine is making, with the only modifications being a K&N air filter, APH Fabrication exhaust system, quickshifter and custom tune by yours truly, but I assure you it's gnarly and it's nasty and downright dangerous!

The engine has about 31K miles on it and it's obviously seen 2 valvetrain adjustments. The last adjustment I upgraded to the 2010 MY clutch/water pump cover and all the associated water pump guts to go with it (and the blocking of that oil vent or whatever). It's been running great and still runs great, but I did just notice that the clutch/water pump cover is seeping oil out of the small orifice at the rear of the water pump housing section. To test how badly it's leaking, I washed the whole bike thoroughly yesterday and rode it this evening on a 45 mile canyon sprint through the mountains. Enough oil had seeped out to almost reach the bottom of the clutch cover, but admittedly that is a spirited ride in comparison to my more mundane commutes.

I've researched this a bit on Badweb and other forums, but not sure whether it's truly a concern at this point or not, if it only occurs during hard riding at high RPM. Is this a known common issue for the Helicon engine? I was planning to ride the CR up to the White Mountains at the end of the month for Memorial Day weekend, but may need to choose another vehicle if it would get worse. The trip from my town to Greer and back is around 600 miles roundtrip.

 

[Cooter]

Got a pic? Not sure what orifice you mean. I'm pretty familiar with those inner clutch cover housings, and revisions... against my will

There is a weep-hole orifice on the water pump cover, just under the protrusion, but only coolant would come out?

 

[Barrett]

Got a pic? Not sure what orifice you mean. I'm pretty familiar with those inner clutch cover housings, and revisions... against my will

There is a weep-hole orifice on the water pump cover, just under the protrusion, but only coolant would come out?

He's referring to the cover weep hole. It's approx 4.5MM ID and is threaded for some unknown reason. Designed to vent the cover and allow coolant that has leaked past the pump seal to exit via that hole. Even with pump seal replaced, it is not uncommon for the hole to "weep" or "mist" a small amount of motor oil if the engine is run very, very hard.

 

[Mesozoic]

Barrett is correct, the cover weep hole... I'll post a pic when I get back to the garage this evening.

Admittedly, I've learned how to ride the 1125CR harder, especially with the use of the quickshifter and I'm definitely getting closer to redline during rides. Several other factors may be contributing to weeping, including the steadily increasing ambient temperatures, suspension tuning and cockpit adjustments that enable more spirited riding.

 

[Cooter]

So its a weep-hole?

 

[Mesozoic]

So its a weep-hole?

This hole:

 

[Mesozoic]

If I do need to order some parts, it looks like the simplest thing to do is go straight to Buell Motorcycles and order from them, is that right?

 

[Cooter]

Yep, that's the hole I was thinking of. It is a special "rotary seal" on the water pump shaft that takes TWO specialty tools to install. If you have coolant coming out, no biggie, keep an eye on the level, it makes a bigger mess than it seems. If you indeed have oil coming out, then your coolant and oil are mixing. A tiny bit... for now. But it's definitely happening.

I have bought an NOS part and also sourced the seal and attempted that job myself. Twice. Unsuccessfully

If you buy a new cover, make sure its at least the REV 2 one, or the EBR 1190 one is a bolt-on replacement with a slightly different color. The WP comes installed in the cover already, but I worry because it's a NOS part and been sitting a long time. I would recommend sending yours to Chaz at Aagard Moto Foundry for repair.

You know what it takes to swap that cover so proceed accordingly:upset:

My solution for future Cooter:
https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?57176-EBR-Exhaust-mod

 

[Mesozoic]

Haha nice... I knew it was going to be a royal PITA. So initially, the seepage looked like it was oil mixed with coolant. Now, after a hard ride the seepage looks like oil only. Neither the coolant expansion tank or the oil dipstick are showing cross contamination at this stage, though.

The cover I've got on there is a new 2010 MY unit, which I believe is the same as the 1190, perhaps. The cover I got did not have the water pump installed on it, I had to get a new shaft assembly, all the new seals, etc. My big question is whether I should keep riding it or not because I'd love to kick this can down the road until it needs another valve adjustment in 5000 miles!

 

[Cooter]

It wont be much (yet) because the leak isn't much (yet). I mentioned it because theres no way to leak oil out that hole without being exposed to coolant. How bad the problem is, is up to you.

Yes, 2010 Buell is the same as 1190, the colors are a little different. If you got one without the WP assembly somehow, how was special seal installed last time? Maybe thats the root of the issue?

 

[Mesozoic]

I looked at what I received from the mechanic (who is a former Buell tech) after I asked them to do my last valve adjustment and replace the clutch cover with the 2010 model. The old (2009) clutch cover has the water pump shaft and everything still installed on it, so I'm assuming everything I ordered for the 2010 "upgrade" went in.

This is what I ordered for that:

R0022A.3AM clutch cover assembly (2010)	$219.49	Newcastle
Q0428.3AM waterpump shaft assembly (2010)	$157.36	Newcastle
CB0028.1AM thrust washer (2010)	$2.73	Newcastle
Q0430.3AM oil seal (2010)	$8.08	Newcastle
Q0431.3AM rotary seal (2010)	$26.41	Newcastle
R0001.1AM clutch cover gasket (2010)	$17.28	Newcastle
Q0426.1AM water pump gasket (2010)	$4.06	Newcastle
CJ0001.1AM sealing ring	$1.25	Newcastle

I just rode the Buell into work this morning and took it easy - I don't think I exceeded about 6000 RPM and was basically just cruising in. The ride is about 16 miles with some twisties thrown in... I do not see any seepage at all after that ride. So that's good. I guess I'll just do a few more tame rides and see how it's doing because I'd really love to take this up into the mountains at the end of the month. Perhaps it is just a high RPM, aggressive riding thing, but I think I need to put some more time on it to determine that.

 

[Cooter]

Looks like a complete list to me, but you can buy that part NOS with the WP included and installed too. That rotary seal is the bitch one.

If you paid to have this professionally done by a former Buell tech........ what did they say when you asked them about the work leaking?

 

[Mesozoic]

Looks like a complete list to me, but you can buy that part NOS with the WP included and installed too. That rotary seal is the bitch one.

If you paid to have this professionally done by a former Buell tech........ what did they say when you asked them about the work leaking?

I haven't approached the techs about this because I've put 6000 miles on the bike since that work was done. If it does need to come apart again, I think I'm going to do the work myself since I've got a few other rides.

 

[Cooter]

Thats fine, I'd still recommend sending the cover to Chaz.

 

[Mesozoic]

So at this point, I've driven the thing to work and back several times, hammering on it a fair bit at times while passing or just stretching the legs on a straight. It has stopped seeping. No idea why or what happened there. Maybe it seeps if I'm hammering it hard at high RPM for sustained periods, unclear.

I'll definitely consider sending it to Chaz once I have to rotate the motor for the valve adjustment in a few thousand miles, though.

 

[Cooter]

I actually had 34:19 run down to your place real quick and wait for you to go to sleep. Then he broke into your garage, pulled off the inner clutch cover, repaired the seal and had it all back together well before the first Rooster crowed.

Man, he's so good, right!?!

 

[Mesozoic]

Still seeping occasionally. I think I'm going to chance it and ride the **** out of it up to Greer at the end of the month.

I did buy a new Honda CB1000R (2023 model) and that thing has turned into a lemon. At Honda's direct orders, I'm required to trailer that POS back to Mesa where I bought it from, so that machine is out for my Greer excursion. The XB12 lost a belt and it'll be a few weeks before I get the new sprocket, so the 1125CR is all I got!

 

[Cooter]

It's a long ride, but I'd run it, have fun, and keep an eye on it. I bet it's fine:angel: Post pics!

What happened to the Honda? I thought Buells were unreliable POS's and Hondas were always perfect in every way, forever? Is the internet wrong!?!:distracted:

 

[Mesozoic]

The Honda is missing some part or something from its single sided swingarm, there's excessive play in it. I did, in fact, trailer the POS back to Mesa where I bought it from and there it remains since last Tuesday. No idea what's wrong with it, but the local dealer here in Tucson said it's not safe to ride.

Our trip to Greer got cancelled because my other half was being a pansy. Regardless, I've gotten to work on the XB12Ss since the new sprocket came in. Not quite jumping into that yet because of what I mentioned in another thread about overspray. For the 1125CR, I think the oil level is actually overfilled and may have been causing the seepage. I don't know if that resolves the issue because I only just drained about 200 mL out of earlier today, but I plan to ride it hard tomorrow and will see if it's seeping again. The seepage was definitely correlated to high RPM operation.

 

[Cooter]

Bummer about the trip! It looked so cool I was gonna drag ol' 34:19 out for a ride next time I'm in PHX with a free day. Lots of Eagle Rider credits to burn.

It's gonna take a LOT of "seepage" to make any difference in the oil level. Even if it was enough seepage to have one drop on the floor... 20 drops= 1mL, so there is approx 56,780 drops of oil in your properly filled Buell:eagerness:





Wow the dork is strong today:black_eyed: