XB12Ss having issues running after mods

[ese12105]

Hello all,

Looking for some help with my 2006 Buell XB12Ss. I just had my exhaust modified by Hawk Performance, installed a K&N air filter, and did the crankcase breather mod. I flashed the ECM with the Race Map from buellmods.com, reset TPS, and took it for a spin. The bike had a lot of trouble getting going from a stop--it cut out a few times and I had to restart. I'd get the revs up kinda high and then it would get going. I've never had this issue, so I headed back home.

I then reflashed the ECM with a Race Map that Randy sent me from Hawk Performance as it was slightly different form that the Race Map was off buellmods.com. Same thing.

I restored the ECM back to the stock map and set the AFV to 110% and did a TPS reset. This helped getting going from a stop, but it's still not like it used to be. It used to be hard to get this bike to stall, now, I have to give it a lot more gas than I'm used to. But at least I can get it going fine. Things were looking up until I got out on to the open road with 50 mph speed limits. I popped it up into 5th gear as I usually do to cruise at low rpm and it was ok for about five seconds. Then it cut out quickly then came back. It did this a few times so I shifted down to 4th. Same thing. Then down to 3rd and same thing. Weird, I think, but I keep going. I get to the highway and get up to 70 mph, it's in 5th and again, same thing. It's fine for about 10-15 seconds, then quick cut out, then it comes back. I then get a check engine light so I head home.

The check engine light was for the O2 sensor saying it's constantly lean. So I know I need to get a race map on the ECM since it's running lean. Question is, what am I doing wrong?... Am I missing something? I'm getting the map on and I can see it's different from comparing the 3d views of the maps. But it's not working for the bike, if it can't get going from a stop, it's useless.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Negative]

I had a similar problem on mine but it was because my idle fueling values were way too rich ... do you know how to tune your idle using the EGO values with ECMspy?? ...

 

[ese12105]

Considering I don't know what EGO stands for, I would say I don't know lol... If you could point me towards a thread or explain it to me, it would be much appreciated

 

[Negative]

Lolol I can help explain it to ya man ... do you have ECMspy and a USB cable to work with your bike??

 

[ese12105]

I sure do. I gotta go to bed, gotta work early, but I will appreciate any help you can post. I'll check it out in the morning. Thanks!

 

[Negative]

Alright ... it's gonna be a longish write up ... I'll get started now ... check the thread in the AM ...

 

[Negative]

Alright ... here we go ... Before you do anything to your bike, save the EEPROM that's in there right now ... every time you make any kinda changes to the map and it makes matters worse, you can always fall back on what you had before ... that way you can only improve instead of being stuck in a worse predicament ...

I'm sure I'll probably have quite a few questions after I explain this, but that's perfectly fine just ask away ... I'll start off explaining what EGO is and how the ECM uses it first before I explain how to tune by looking at it first so you'll understand what's going on and what you're looking at first ... Always helps to understand what you're doing yourself rather than just copying some instructions ... (give a man a fish, feed him for a day ... teach a man to fish, feed him forever) ...

EGO (otherwise known as Exhaust Gas Oxygen) is a measurement of how much oxygen is leftover in the exhaust coming from your engine measured by the O2 sensor ... Here is where you find the EGO value in ECMspy below ...

If you have a lot of O2 leftover in the exhaust it'll mean that you're running very lean and will have a high EGO correction value (running very rich would mean vice versa and result in a low EGO value) ... The computer uses the EGO value it sees in closed loop portions of the map when it's actually paying attention to the O2 sensor to adjust the fueling and try to make the mixture as close to a perfect 14.7/1 ratio as possibly (otherwise known as stoichiometric) ... When you are out riding your bike, the computer is constantly looking at the EGO value when it's in closed loop mode to see if it's running consistently lean or rich and it changes it's AFV (adaptive fuel value) to match the EGO ... The computer puts the AFV change to the entire map as a whole ... Since the maps are supposed to be tuned for stoichiometric across it's entirety this (in theory) should keep the bike running perfectly from day to day with different conditions encountered (richer for the cold periods, leaner for summer ... leaner for high altitude, richer for low ... etc, etc) ... But the computer has limits on how far the AFV can go up or down to correct the fuel maps, and if it's constantly seeing that it needs to either go higher or lower than the limits that are set it will start throwing error codes like you saw after you changed the maps (the "O2 Sensor Always Lean" error you mentioned) ... Here is where you find the AFV in ECMspy ...

notice how it mimics the EGO value on this picture below ... after about 20-30 minutes of riding the ECM will change it's AFV to reflect the EGO value ... it doesn't do it right away, there are built in delays that it adheres to before it applies a change it's learned from the EGO value ...

SO ... All of that being said ... those maps you downloaded and installed should be a decent "approximation" for your bike ... but each bike runs slightly differently ... Before I tuned mine I made sure I did a perfect TPS reset when I burned the new maps to my ECM when I got my Hawk exhaust and then got to work tuning the map myself to try and perfectly suit it to my bike ... so far i've had to make very few changes except the idle values luckily ...

Now before you go off and start changing cell values and making matters worse like I did the first time I tried this method ... there are a few prerequisites you need to have in order ... for one, your bike needs to be at operating temperature ... you'll know it's at operating temperature when it stops adding a "cold start enrichment" to the fuel tables ... a "Cold Start Enrichment" is basically an electronic choke ... it's a percentage of fuel added on top of what's already supposed to be added at any rpm ... here is the Cold Start Enrichment value for a motor at operating temperature ...

AND it needs to be in closed loop so the ECM is actually reading the O2 sensor ... You'll know when it's in closed loop when this is displayed ...

This below is an example of a cold engine before it's even been started ... notice the very high cold start enrichment AND that it's in open loop running mode which it will be for a while after you start it until it warms up ... in open loop it will disregard the O2 readings and go directly by the fuel map along with whatever other corrections are being applied to it (in this case a lot of fuel is being added by the cold start enrichment value) ...

Now that you've got that in order you'll need to swap over to the "Fuel Maps" tab and select the option in the checkboxes to let it show you exactly where your ECM is reading on the fuel maps ... This is the cell you're going to be editing judging from your EGO value you see at idle ... I've pointed out the checkbox in the picture below ...

This is what it shows on the map when you check this box ... these "highlighted" cells are exactly what the ECM is looking at to run the engine ...

This is the area you'll be looking to correct to get the idle to hopefully smooth out ...

Now after you crank up the bike, warm it up, and see what the EGO value is in the ECM runtime page ... whether it be over 100% or under 100% ... you'll kill the bike, take that number, go back to the fuel maps page in ECMspy and put it right here in this box ...

And hit this button to apply that much of a percentage to the fuel cell you had highlighted in the fuel map ...

What you've just done is take the correction the O2 sensor was applying to that particular fuel cell and adjust the map to suit it ... that way, when you're running in open loop (like you would on a cold engine at first startup or during certain situations when you are out riding and you bring your engine down to an idle) it will pull off of a correct value instead of relying on the O2 sensor to always correct it ... You can use the idle screw to idle the bike up and hit other cells too and make corrections judging by what you see from the O2 sensor in each cell ... remember to try and adjust adjacent cells as well to smooth out the fuel values in them (you can use the 3D view to see how "smooth" your map is around the idle portion after you make adjustments) ...



...... Whew!!!![smirk]

 

[ese12105]

Well, makes sense so far. I'm going to have to work on this after I finish work. Thanks so much for your time! I'll let you know if I have any questions!

 

[ese12105]

Ok, thought of something. Should I do these adjustments on the stock map? Or should I put the race map on? I'm guessing the latter because I'm adjusting the low end rpm's to get up and going right? I put the stock map back on last night and did a really good TPS reset and it fixed the problem I was having of it cutting out at speed. Now, to correct the low end and I should be ok, right?

 

[sprk_sprd]

Very helpful of you to write that up, Negative! [up]

 

[ese12105]

Well this is being ridiculous. EGO is at 150%. This makes the numbers on the map pretty high at the idle range because they're being multiplied by 1.5... I did this with the race map back on and it's not quite working. Might just put the stock map back on and maybe mess around a little with that. Not really sure what to do... Lol

 

[DualSportDad]

before you get too far ahead of yourself.... your bike should run ok with either the race map or the one hawk supplied. if you're getting a o2 sensor code for 2 lean i'd check the o2 sensor to make sure it's working properly.

when my o2 sensor was bad i had a similar problem. my bike was running ok until i flashed a different map and then it was all jacked up.

 

[ese12105]

Hmm... Any way to check if it's working? Or should I just replace it? But I only got the code once. Rode it to work and back on the stock map and it worked ok. Just having issues when I flash in the race map.

 

[Negative]

Ok, thought of something. Should I do these adjustments on the stock map? Or should I put the race map on? I'm guessing the latter because I'm adjusting the low end rpm's to get up and going right? I put the stock map back on last night and did a really good TPS reset and it fixed the problem I was having of it cutting out at speed. Now, to correct the low end and I should be ok, right?

I believe so sir ...

Very helpful of you to write that up, Negative! 

No problemo man that's what we're here for ...

Well this is being ridiculous. EGO is at 150%. This makes the numbers on the map pretty high at the idle range because they're being multiplied by 1.5... I did this with the race map back on and it's not quite working. Might just put the stock map back on and maybe mess around a little with that. Not really sure what to do... Lol

That seems like an extreme amount to be off man ... But you can adjust using those numbers and see what results you get .... OR ... steal the idle area values from your stock map and insert them in the same cells in your race map and see how that turns out ... trial and error at this point with the map showing that much of an extreme error ...

before you get too far ahead of yourself.... your bike should run ok with either the race map or the one hawk supplied. if you're getting a o2 sensor code for 2 lean i'd check the o2 sensor to make sure it's working properly.

when my o2 sensor was bad i had a similar problem. my bike was running ok until i flashed a different map and then it was all jacked up.

Not a bad suggestion at all ... but the only way to really test this out is to have a spare lambda laying around to swap out ... Mine had pretty much the same result as you just stated above, except it was behaving like ese12105's bike is now ...

Hmm... Any way to check if it's working? Or should I just replace it? But I only got the code once. Rode it to work and back on the stock map and it worked ok. Just having issues when I flash in the race map.

It sounds to me like the current O2 sensor is doing it's job ... If you want to go and get a replacement to swap out and just see if you get the same results with the different maps I'd never say that was a bad idea ... you'd always have the spare if you needed it after all ... I still think you should try the stock map's idle values on the race map to see if that fixes the low end problem ... how did the rest of the map handle ? ...

 

[ese12105]

Ok drove to and from work today with the stock map. 20 miles round trip, and no check engine light for too lean. I checked the EGO when I got home and it was at 111%, much better than the 150% I was getting last night. I'll work on the map stealing the values from the stock map to the race map for the idle values. I'll try it out this weekend. Just don't feel like messing with it any more this week, just want to relax after work... Lol. Thanks for the help!

On a side note, installed a new fan because my old one burnt out and decided to buy a right side scoop at the same time. With the scoop, my 20 minute commute home in 100 degree weather, and the fan never came on. What a difference. Engine temp only got up to 145 degreese Celsius, when the fan always came on no matter what the temp was outside before, even in 70 degree weather.

 

[TX_BUELL]

Great input and write up Negative, I know who to direct my next ECM question to [up]

 

[Negative]

Ok drove to and from work today with the stock map. 20 miles round trip, and no check engine light for too lean. I checked the EGO when I got home and it was at 111%, much better than the 150% I was getting last night. I'll work on the map stealing the values from the stock map to the race map for the idle values. I'll try it out this weekend. Just don't feel like messing with it any more this week, just want to relax after work... Lol. Thanks for the help!

On a side note, installed a new fan because my old one burnt out and decided to buy a right side scoop at the same time. With the scoop, my 20 minute commute home in 100 degree weather, and the fan never came on. What a difference. Engine temp only got up to 145 degreese Celsius, when the fan always came on no matter what the temp was outside before, even in 70 degree weather.

Absolutely no problem at all ... glad we found the issue to be improper fueling ... you sure you didn't install a XB9 map in your 12? ... lol ... Also, right after I installed my right side scoop and rode it for a few weeks i actually started worrying my fan had gone out !! ... it used to come on religiously after every ride and even once or twice at red lights .... I took it out, did the full troubleshooting workup on the fan and wiring itself, tested the head temp sensor, ran diagnostics countless times in ECMspy, even did datalogs SPECIFICALLY to try and see if my fan was just not operating ... come to find out after the rides and watching JUST the engine temp, it never got up to the setpoint the ECM had to kick it on ... even after I shut it down from a long ride in hot weather (and by hot I mean 100°+) !! ... that is a great improvement to the cooling of the bike, really it is ...

And speaking on that 111% EGO ... did you mean the AFV? ... if so that means the area you were cruising in on the stock fuel map is a little on the lean side ... but we can work on that at a later date .... crack a few open for me broski!!

Great input and write up Negative, I know who to direct my next ECM question to

Anytime man ... I will help to the best of my ability ... I try my best to be as helpful as some of the other members that have helped me bring my buell back to life on here are ... I had to get really familiary with the ECM operation on these things as mine was just out of wack all over the place ...