05 XB9SX Crank Seal Assistance

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Mash199

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Joined
Jun 8, 2019
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I performed a full teardown over the winter in order to repair the trans, the shift drum was slightly damaged but it's all straightened out now. When I originally put the case halves back together, there was a slight misalignment that may have damaged the crank seal (between the primary and the crank case).

After reassembly and running the bike, I did an oil change. I noticed what looked like a little bit of trans fluid in the oil, and when draining the primary I noticed the opposite. Assuming this was due to the crank seal I may have damaged, I dismantled the primary and removed the old seal. I am currently attempting to drive in the new one.

I'm having a hell of a time getting the new seal in, and I'm worried about damaging it. Another new one is probably weeks away at this point. The only other forum posts and videos I've found deal with this job on tube frame Buells, where this seal apparently just sits flush to the bore. On the XB though, there's a retaining ring inside the bore, meaning the seal has to be pressed in about ¼ of an inch, and this is what I'm having trouble with. I've managed to gently tap the seal flush with the bore, but I don't have an effective method for getting it deeper.

The last thing I tried was to use the old seal and a washer to push the new seal in, using the crank nut to press them down evenly. It doesn't seem to be working and it may be damaging the seal.
 
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I've tinkered a lot on my bikes, but have never done formal engine work so forgive this question...

Don't a lot of us use the same 20W50 for both transmission and swingarm oil? How do you tell one fluid from the other?

I certainly don't. Buells run a wet clutch which will behave differently depending on the fluid that's in it. One year I put some off brand clutch case fluid in my primary and my clutch started to slip. I didn't realize what was causing it at the time so I dissasembled it and checked the clutch pack for wear. Everything was fine, so I reassembled it and filled it with with proper Harley brand chain case fluid and the slippage went away. I can't speak to running 20w50 in the primary, I've never done it, and the service manual certainly doesn't indicate that you're supposed to use it that way. Maybe the older buells share fluid, but I'm quite sure all XB models and blasts are supposed to have both oil and trans fluid. The trans and crank case are separate from eachother
 
I would have no idea how anyone could tell a little ATF mixed with 20w-50 or vice versa...

The clutch and primary chain share fluid in the primary case and the fluid should match whatever the CLUTCH MFG recommends. If the clutch is Buell stock then H-D Formula + is the right stuff. Some clutch mfg's recommend anything from 20w-50 to ATF and they are all OK to put in the primary.

The engine oil stays in the swingarm and not in the crankcase. The crankcase and transmission share the engine oil. Use the correct weight for the lowest temp you will ride in.

You can use a short length of PVC that matches the OD of the seal to drive the correct depth you are looking for, without distorting the seal face.

I don't know off the top of my head what that depth is. If the service manual doesn't spell it out for you, give Hammer Performance a call, they do lots of work on Buells.

You can get the service manual for free at Buellmods.com of Buelltooth.com
:up:
 
Back to the issue of driving in that seal, I got this message from a certain dearly departed.
Passing on these words, I'm kinda feeling the whole burning bush and clay tablet vibe here...

"if he tries that he'll ruin a fairly expensive new seal.

he needs to either purchase or borrow/rent the seal driver tool harley-davidson part # 45206.

last i checked it was a bit under $20. there are aftermarket seal drivers around as well for buell/sportster Xl/XR for perhaps a bit less. the reason you cannot and should not use a socket or piece of PVC pipe is that it will distort the outer sealing surface of the seal when trying to drive it into the bore. the H-D tool has a dedicated "lip" around the circumference that perfectly matches the installation groove in the seal.

he will NOT need the factory T-handle driver to use in conjunction with the seal installation tool. simply find or make a 1 inch long piece of steel pipe with a 1 inch ID. use that over top of the seal installation tool to drive it into its bore. you put a very light coating of very light grease on outer circumference of the seal....start it by hand....install seal driver tool over top of seal...then piece of pipe you made...then the crankshaft rotor nut...and turn the nut to drive the seal into place.

HE SHOULD NOTE THIS: using the [other] method will destroy the seal. why? because it will drive the seal into the bore too far and the crankshaft end bearing will, in short order, eat it alive. the factory tool automatically sets the correct depth of the seal."
 
Definitely do as mention right above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ as I now have found out that this is being copied and pasted on here by the above from a spiritual source !

Im not knocking you on this, but I guess it's what you start off with, a good majority of Buellers on this forum do use the Amsoil 20/50, me included. I don't find the clutch grabby at all and this is the first I have heard something like this, though I do suppose if I did try the Harley oil I might find the Amsoil grabby.

What I find amusing is years ago, like in the 80's maybe even the mid 70's, I started using amsoil and I told my friends to use it in their Harley's, Harley dealers told them don't it it will ruin your bike, don't ever use that sh-t, now Harley dealerships sell it themselves. I would think that if your going to go by what the Mfg says to use, you would also use only Harley branded lubes and maybe you do and as stated above, use whatever makes you feel comfortable.
 
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Definitely do as mention right above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ as I now have found out that this is being copied and pasted on here by the above from a spiritual source !

Im not knocking you on this, but I guess it's what you start off with, a good majority of Buellers on this forum do use the Amsoil 20/50, me included. I don't find the clutch grabby at all and this is the first I have heard something like this, though I do suppose if I did try the Harley oil I might find the Amsoil grabby.

What I find amusing is years ago, like in the 80's maybe even the mid 70's, I started using amsoil and I told my friends to use it in their Harley's, Harley dealers told them don't it it will ruin your bike, don't ever use that sh-t, now Harley dealerships sell it themselves. I would think that if your going to go by what the Mfg says to use, you would also use only Harley branded lubes and maybe you do and as stated above, use whatever makes you feel comfortable.

I appreciate the advice, and I will definitely look into it. When I say I've been using "Harley" brand fluids, I was simplifying things a bit. Lately I've been buyi g drag specialty fluid from a small local shop. The owner is a friend of mine and I want to support him when I can. If I can simplify things with one fluid, I might just do that.
 
Back to the issue of driving in that seal, I got this message from a certain dearly departed.
Passing on these words, I'm kinda feeling the whole burning bush and clay tablet vibe here...

"if he tries that he'll ruin a fairly expensive new seal.

he needs to either purchase or borrow/rent the seal driver tool harley-davidson part # 45206.

last i checked it was a bit under $20. there are aftermarket seal drivers around as well for buell/sportster Xl/XR for perhaps a bit less. the reason you cannot and should not use a socket or piece of PVC pipe is that it will distort the outer sealing surface of the seal when trying to drive it into the bore. the H-D tool has a dedicated "lip" around the circumference that perfectly matches the installation groove in the seal.

he will NOT need the factory T-handle driver to use in conjunction with the seal installation tool. simply find or make a 1 inch long piece of steel pipe with a 1 inch ID. use that over top of the seal installation tool to drive it into its bore. you put a very light coating of very light grease on outer circumference of the seal....start it by hand....install seal driver tool over top of seal...then piece of pipe you made...then the crankshaft rotor nut...and turn the nut to drive the seal into place.

HE SHOULD NOTE THIS: using the [other] method will destroy the seal. why? because it will drive the seal into the bore too far and the crankshaft end bearing will, in short order, eat it alive. the factory tool automatically sets the correct depth of the seal."

This is the advice I was looking for. I appreciate how thorough your response is, even if I am a little frustrated that I'll have to source ANOTHER specialty tool. I should mention that the rigid edge of this seal for some reason doesn't have a flat face like most other seals do, it has a rounded face on one side, and basically just a sharp edge with a rubber coating on the other. When I removed the old seal the sharp edge was facing out, so I've begun installing the new one the same way. I have no idea if the correct install tool will work with such a small surface area to push against. That said, I don't want to bung up the seal (if I haven't already) so I'll definitely be looking into this route.
 
Hey all, so I did a bit of digging and I couldn't find a place to actually buy the seal installer tool. What I did find, however, is a 3d model to print or CNC the exact part needed. Here's the link.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1784320

I've asked a friend to 3D print it for me, hopefully it'll do the trick.
 
Thats a great find Mash! Thingverse really does have everything, the Amazon of 3D printing LOL.

If your friend falls through, PM me and I'll make you one. I just got a spool of Gold PLA:cool:

My friend fell through but my brother knows a few people, he's got someone printing it for 10 bucks
 
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