06 Ulysses XB12X stalling on cold startup and at warm idle

[Foldout]

Bike:
Recently purchased 2006 Ulysses XB12X, 18.5k miles, K&N air filter, breather re-route with filter, Termignoni exhaust without valve, stock BUEIB ECM (no idea if the map is stock).

Problems:

1. Start cold bike, idles for ~1 second, then stalls.
2. Start cold bike, open throttle to a steady 2000 rpm, runs for a few more seconds, but the rpms slowly drop, then stalls.
3. End of ~30 min ride the oil light comes on and the engine stalls when idling in 1st. Let the bike rest for ~15 mins then the ride back felt rough and had ~5 stalls. No stored ECM codes. Seems unlikely the engine was too hot as I kept the rpms in the 2000-4000 range the whole ride.
4. Bouncy/oscillating idle that's worst when cold.
5. Popping when engine braking.
6. Occasional gasp/gulp noise when accelerating, possibly due to rubber velocity stack installed wrong (see below)?

History:
Bought this a few weeks ago. Stalled on startup the first few days, those were solved by just getting into 1st gear and taking off, the bike would be fine after a few mins of riding.

Did the TPS reset using EcmSpy and the bike finally started without stalling! That only lasted for a few days/rides (~120 miles) until it stalled when warm and at idle during a ride.

What I've done:
First time Buell owner who's been reading through this forum, nice place you got here!

1. TPS reset only lasted ~120 miles. Will reset again.
2. Checked engine and transmission oil levels.
3. Charged battery, charge only took ~20mins at 750mA, guess the battery is okay. Also no perceptible voltage drain over a few days.
4. All grounds read <0.4 ohms.
5. Contact cleaner on most connectors (all looked clean beforehand): battery, ECM, voltage regulator, stator, and other connectors under sprocket cover.
6. I'm fairly certain that the rubber velocity stack seal lip wasn't slipped into the airbox baseplate when I bought it. I connected it properly now, but have yet to ride it.
7. EcmSpy showed that the camshaft position sensor was disabled, yikes. I re-enabled it, but have yet to ride since. Still stalling.

My next steps:
No idea, I'm new to engine issues so any help or encouragement would be appreciated. Otherwise I'll try:

• Cleaning all grounds (and maybe add more) following this Fixing Earthing Problems post: https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showt...s-Why-and-How&p=604447&mode=linear#post604447
• Airfilter looked okay to me, but I'm buying K&N cleaner and oil to service it.
• Holding off on spark plugs and oil changes until I figure out the stalling issue.

Solution:
Bike runs great after replacing the leaking intake seals, the spark plugs, and the ignition cables. See end of thread for more info.

 

[Cooter]

Welcome to the forum Foldout, and THANK you for the clear description of the bike, the problems and what you've done. It helps so much and my crystal ball is all worn out

Let's cheat a little first before we start a proper diagnosis and hopefully we get lucky.
Things to note under Problems:
#5 that is a sign it is running lean, and
#6 also a sign it is running lean or weak fuel pump.

And things you've done:
#6 Believe it or not that unseated gasket will do all sort of weird things including stalling so go ride it.
#7 Thats impossible, the bike would not run without the CPS working. Possibly you mean the error code was disabled?

Things to check.
One TPS re-set should be fine, it won't become 'un-set' unless you mess with the idle screw again like you had to to set it correctly. You DID do the proper procedure.... Not just press the re-set button right??
Check your AFV and post it here. That will be a clear sign of what the ECM is trying to do and lead us in the right direction for diagnosis.

Good luck!

 

[Foldout]

First contact! You're too kind Cooter.

Just reset the TPS again (before I saw your reply). I did follow the procedure each time, should've clarified. Then went for some short errand rides. First ride when taking off it was bucking like a bull for a few blocks before settling down to idle at ~950rpm, low but didn't stall. After warming up some more the idle was at ~1050rpm. Still hearing and feeling problem #6 so maybe this is misfiring. Unfortunately on the next couple rides there were 2 stalls idling at red lights.

Nice catch about the CPS, yes it was simply the error code that was disabled.

Does the AFV need to be read while riding, idling, or with the engine off? Because with the engine off EcmSpy showed 90 front and 90 rear AFV %. If the other readings are needed I'll get them in the next few days, since the air filter is currently drying off.

 

[Cooter]

That AFV reading is odd. an '06 DDFI-2 Buell only has one O2 sensor (in the rear) so the front O2 reading should be 100 but greyed out and unchangeable. Does your bike have an O2 sensor added to the front head pipe near the cylinder?

The AFV can be read even with the engine off.

Otherwise a AFV of 90 means that the ECM is pulling 10% of fuel out of your global fuel map. It thinks the engine is running rich and trying to compensate by pulling a LOT of fuel out. It's not crazy low, but low enough to look for an issue.

Set the rear AFV at 100 leaving Closed Loop enabled and see if it runs well and either stays running well or reverts to stalling after a normal 20 mile ride. Try to ride smoothly to keep in in Closed Loop and see if it re-adjusts the AFV back down to >100.

Either way, there aren't many things that can make it run too rich. Leaky injector(s), lazy or clogged O2 sensor (https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?26310-Parts-cross-reference-thread), massively clogged air filter, things like that. Does it smell like unburned gas while idling warm?

 

[d_adams]

Check for an intake leak. I'd suspect the seals are not in good shape.

If it turns out that they're actually leaking, replace them. While you're at it, clean the throttle body well and reset the throttle plate to fully closed so you know where you're starting point is when you're doing the TPS reset.

 

[Foldout]

New concern, what seems like an excessive amount of lukewarm air and oily mist is continually exhausted through the positive crankcase ventilation breather tube (I removed the mini-airfilter for now). I couldn't find any videos of open breather tubes to compare mine to so here's a short video. It was taken at idle after riding for ~20 mins. I'm worried about advanced timing and worn piston rings now.


Pre-ride engine off live data including 69.5% AFV:


Post-ride engine off live data with the same AFV, TPS changed because I adjusted the idle:


In EcmSpy 2.0.31.2 tab O2 Setup -> Calibration Mode -> Adaptive Fuel Valve shows AFV Rear as 69.5% and the AFV Front as greyed out. I only have the sole rear O2 sensor. The air filter was cleaned and oiled. The engine exhaust smells rich to me, almost like a 2-stroke dirt bike, but there's also no visible smoke.

My next steps:
The intake leak test, compression test, and then timing test/adjustment. Maybe before this I'll try Cooter's suggestion of changing the AFV to 100%.

Don't expect timely updates as the forecast calls for rain and my maintenance is done outside on a Seattle sidewalk.

 

[Cooter]

Both your AFV and EGO correction are crazy low. You need to take this rainy break to research and find out why the ECM would pull 30%(!!) of fuel out of the bike. I'm surprised it even runs.

If the timing cover still riveted on, just leave the timing alone.

Thats a lot of blow-by, meh, ride it. Whaddayya gonna do? Re-build the entire thing to perfect? I'm betting you are smelling burnt oil out of the exhaust and not gas. Keep an eye on your oil level. What do the plugs look like? Oily?

 

[Cooter]

you're active LOW oil pressure light "at end of ride" as you previously stated, yet another tell-tale clue that all is not internally well.

Ouch! I missed that*. Ya, NOT a good sign Are you sure you have the correct weight oil in it? 20w-50 "V-twin specific"





*Edit to add it may not be that bad. I'm assuming the super-low -almost-dying idle wasn't turning the oil pump fast enough, causing the light.

 

[Foldout]

First off thanks for the suggestions! Back to share what I found:

• Front cylinder spark plug cable was loosely connected on the coil side. The terminal was broken and rusted. New cables on order. Ignition coil's primary and secondary ohms were to spec.
• Rear intake manifold seal leaking. Possibly front too. New Genuine James intake seals 26995-97-X on order.
• Old oil was Mobile 1 Synthetic V-Twin 20w50, I replaced it a few days ago with Motul 7100 Synthetic 20w50. The transmission oil magnetic plug had attracted as much metal flecks as it could feasibly hold. The engine oil mag plug had none.

I cleaned up and reshaped the cable's coil terminal hoping it would work. The first leg of the subsequent ride finally felt great; no misfiring, good throttle response, and the AFV climbed from 69% to 84%. Then on the way home it was back to it's poor self, the cable must have shook free.

Next week I'm taking it to a shop for a leak-down test, compression test, and new IridiumIX spark plugs. Actually the intake seal leak is new info so I may have to reschedule. I'll probably pay a shop to replace them... I've watched videos of it and taking out the intake manifold seems like a real pain, especially with no garage or allens that can reach the manifold flange bolts.

 

[Cooter]

Glad you got some of it sorted. Bummer the intake seal are leaking, double check once the plug wires are on. If you ave the airbox base plate off again, check to see if someone hasn't already changed the allens to hex bolts on the throttle body? If not its worth it to buy the specialty allen 45* deal...

The wires and spark plugs are an easy do-it-yourselfer thing. Use a short piece of 3/8" rubber fuel line to guide and spin the rear plug. Maybe thats all you need?

Theres no transmission plug, it shares oil with the engine.
The primary cover has a plug for the clutch, stator and primary chain. If the plug was that fuzzy it would be worth a look. Step-by-step the manual has easy instructions. You can't own something with Harley DNA and not know how to do that! LOL

Buellmods.com

 

[Foldout]

It's got the factory bolts on the flanges: one side is socket cap allen, the other is hex head. Nice tip with the fuel line for the rear. Swapping the plugs and wires myself is fine, maybe even the throttle body, but I don't want to buy a compression tester or a leak-down tester. And if the shop finds that valves or gaskets are leaking too then I'll have to reassess the plan.

Theres no transmission plug, it shares oil with the engine.

My bad, the manual tripped me up by calling the primary fluid "transmission fluid".

 

[Barrett]

It's got the factory bolts on the flanges: one side is socket cap allen, the other is hex head. Nice tip with the fuel line for the rear. Swapping the plugs and wires myself is fine, maybe even the throttle body, but I don't want to buy a compression tester or a leak-down tester. And if the shop finds that valves or gaskets are leaking too then I'll have to reassess the plan.

My bad, the manual tripped me up by calling the primary fluid "transmission fluid".

All Buell XB models are Harley-Davidson XL sportster and XR1200 engine/transmission architecture dating back to 1957. you're new to all of this so don't get confused by conflicting info.

1-your engine does NOT hold its own oil supply......your engine does NOT share its oil with any other system or component. XL/XR and XB have a dedicated oil tank to accomplish that. your "oil tank" happens to be your swingarm, as well. FULL DRAIN WITH FILTER CHANGE IS 2-1/2 QUARTS.

2-your engine drives your transmission thru a semi-wet clutch AND that clutch is driven by a large dedicated chain. the charging system alternator....chain....clutch are housed inside the large cover on the left of the engine assembly. THAT is what's known on these bikes as the PRIMARY DRIVE. incidentally, the device driving the rear wheel on these models is referred to as the secondary drive. make sense? the TRANSMISSION is housed in the rear of the 2-piece engine case assembly....BUT is completely shielded from same. the transmission shares ONE QUART of oil/fluid with the primary drive. that oil is poured into the primary assembly thru either the upper or lower removable cover. the oil then flows back and forth from the primary to the trans thru opening on left side of engine case.
the primary oil/fluid lubricates your transmission...primary drive components...and assorted ancillary bearings and bushings. it does NOT lubricate the clutch assembly. it only lowers its temperature and reduces annoying clutch plate chatter.

 

[d_adams]

"the primary oil/fluid lubricates your transmission...primary drive components...and assorted ancillary bearings and bushings. it does NOT lubricate the clutch assembly. it only lowers its temperature and reduces annoying clutch plate chatter."

Mmmmm, not quite. The clutch plates ride in the primary oil, so it technically *does* get lubricated. Every time you squeeze the clutch lever, the plates disengage and oil is introduced between the plates. Everything else stated prior is correct though.

 

[casual_observer]

Theres no transmission plug, it shares oil with the engine.

You sure about that Hoss?

 

[Barrett]

"the primary oil/fluid lubricates your transmission...primary drive components...and assorted ancillary bearings and bushings. it does NOT lubricate the clutch assembly. it only lowers its temperature and reduces annoying clutch plate chatter."

Mmmmm, not quite. The clutch plates ride in the primary oil, so it technically *does* get lubricated. Every time you squeeze the clutch lever, the plates disengage and oil is introduced between the plates. Everything else stated prior is correct though.

Mmmmmmm...let's split hairs, Dean.
the lower portion of the clutch pack assembly "rides" in the top layer of the primary fluid for one specific reason only, and that is to move the fluid around and sling it, so that the other internal primary components get lubrication from the fluid. a secondary benefit of the oil "wetting" the clutch pack is, as i mentioned, reduced noise, smoother engagement and reducing clutch pack temps.
this style motorcycle clutch sans the chain, can function wet or dry. kawasaki R series two-stroke racing triples and ducatis have proven that for decades.
semantics....lubricating fluids....terminology....always result in great keyboard rumbles on here. let me get my coffee.

 

[Cooter]

You sure about that Hoss?

Nope. I was wrong... The picture in my head was engine oil pressure ports at the transmission shaft bearings. Must have been thinking of something designed after the 50's:upset: LOL

 

[Foldout]

Wait, the primary plug's tiny magnet was covered in shavings so the rotor's magnets are probably covered too. Didn't think about that at the time. Man, I'll have to take out the clutch, chain, and rotor for inspection sometime soon.

 

[casual_observer]

Wait, the primary plug's tiny magnet was covered in shavings so the rotor's magnets are probably covered too. Didn't think about that at the time. Man, I'll have to take out the clutch, chain, and rotor for inspection sometime soon.

How much shavings? A little is acceptible, but a lot is a obviously a problem. If the chain is rubbing on the cases, which are aluminum, that won't be attracted to the magnets. The friction material is the other real wear material which is non magnetic as well. The only other real culprit is likely the magnets and you may have had one detach and run through the wringer. If the shavings are excessive, I would pull the primary cover at very least and go from there.

 

[Foldout]

Updating this thread for closure.

During the first stretch of sunny weather in early 2021 I replaced the leaking intake seals, the spark plugs, and the ignition cables then TPS reset. The bike hasn't stalled since and obviously rides way better.

The only mystery I never solved was the dropping AFV%. At the time of seal replacement my AFV was 61.7% (normal operating range is supposed to be 95-104%). Even after the above repairs the AFV would drop from 100% to 85%. It wouldn't stall at 85% or go lower but I could feel the power loss.

With everything else sorted I think the only culprit for an 85% AFV would be the O2 sensor? To be honest at that point I couldn't be bothered to drop the engine to access the O2 sensor; I just wanted to ride my bike. Instead my dirty hack was to disable open-loop learn with EcmSpy to freeze the AFV at 100%. The bike has run great ever since.

If running with open-loop learn off is exceedingly terrible long-term come yell at me and maybe I'll come back for round 2. Otherwise bite me. Just kidding love you guys and thanks for the help.