09 XB12R Won't start

[Matthew1926]

Hey Everyone -

I am having an issue with starting my 2009 XB12R. I turn the key, let the needles do their full sweep, put it in neutral, flip the "kill switch", but the yellow light never comes on. I also don't hear the normal buzzing sound. If I push the starter nothing happens.
I have changed out the battery (it needed a new one anyway), tried resetting the ECM, reset the TPS, checked the fuses, nothing seems to help. I also swapped out my race ECM for the stock one, but no luck.
Any thoughts?
-Matt

 

[Negative]

Are your headlights coming on when you flip the killswitch to run?

 

[Matthew1926]

Yes, headlights are working fine.

 

[Negative]

Ok ... Are there any clicking noises at all ? ... I'm trying to run through the wiring for the starter in my head at the moment ... this is eliminating the solenoids and relays at the moment ... if no power is getting to them we'll have to go further upstream ... if they are ... further downstream ...

 

[Matthew1926]

There is no clicking at all.

 

[Negative]

I forgot to mention ... By "clicking" I don't mean clicking from the starter itself trying to engage ... (although that would mean the starter had current going to it and was actually trying and would point us directly at a solution) .... I meant clicking as in, the start relay in the front left of the fairing area in the relay box clicking when you hit the start button and/or the solenoid on the starter clicking into position to start the motor (it's a very fairy significant "clack" so i'm sure you can't miss that) ...

I'm starting to lean towards an open ground somewhere in the killswitch assembly or it's associated wiring ... but we'll just go over a few more things just to try and be as sure as possible .... Just so you know, it's always kinda difficult to diagnose wiring problems over a forum ... hahahaha

 

[Matthew1926]

I understand the difficulty and I appreciate your time.
When I try to start it I hear no solenoid cycling at all.

My first indication of a problem when turning the key is that the yellow light does not light, and I don't hear the normal 'whirring' sound (forgive my lack of mechanical knowledge, it's not my strong suit ).

 

[Negative]

No problem man ... we all run into problems at one point or another ... and usually learn lots in the process of either helping someone or being helped in return ... hahaha ...

To the problem ... By "yellow light" ... Do you mean the "check engine light"? ... I need to make sure of this as the one on my 03 xb9er is red ... The "low fuel" light is yellow ... I know this sounds like a really stupid question but it really does matter ...

 

[Matthew1926]

Yes, I believe so. During every startup cycle it has always come on for about 5 seconds, and has been accompanied by that 'whirring' sound I spoke of. After that the light turns off, the sound stops and I am usually able to start up my bike.

 

[Negative]

Alrighty ... Let me step over to my bike for just a minute ... in the meantime .. check your fuses (particularly the accessory fuse) ... brb

 

[Matthew1926]

Just rechecked and the Fuses are all SAT.

 

[Negative]

Ok ... I just went through an abbreviated startup sequence with different interlocks tripped to see what all could be malfunctioning before we start saying it's a wiring issue ... always better to start off with the simple parts first and work up from there ... (and I utterly despise troubleshooting wiring crap) ...

So ... here we go ... (Provided the bike is electrically sound!) There are a few things that need to trip in order for you to get power to the ECM, the fuel pump, and the starter to run the bike when the key is switched on....

The bike needs:

The killswitch to be in the "run" position (of course ... bear with me ... i'm just walking through the steps)

And the bike either needs to be in neutral (which also would show whether or not the neutral switch is the cause if it's not working right and not showing a big green N on the dash) .... or have the sidestand UP if the bike is IN gear OR the clutch pulled in if it's IN gear ...

If any one of these is not tripped you'll have no power to the ECM to start the bike ... which will not let the "check engine light" illuminate NOR let the starter or the fuel pump run ... Remember we are starting off small just to eliminate the switches involved in the starter interlocks themselves ... I hate watching a thread shoot back and forth between one switch ... some wiring ... a fuse .... another switch .... a connector somewhere .... something really really expensive .... the rider himself being dumb .... the bike being possessed and demanding a blood sacrifice to run or some **** ... I'm just gonna go from step 1 on if that's ok ...

ALSO in no way, shape, or form am I trying to insult your ability to troubleshoot stuff like this yourself ... hahaha ... some people get their jimmies rustled if you suggest something basic like a fuse

 

[Matthew1926]

Sounds good.

Just attempted the following startups to no avail.
-Kill Switch in run, side stand down, bike in neutral.
-Kill Switch in run, side stand up, bike in neutral.
-Kill Switch in run, side stand up, clutch pulled in, bike in neutral.

During the attempts to start the needles did their normal full sweep when turning the key on, and the neutral and oil lights were lit the entire time. No other lights were lit. I heard no noise from the bike when I attempted to start it, to include solenoids clicking or a fuel pump running.

I think that is everything that I did. Hope that helps to narrow it down a bit.

One strange thought that I had, does that bike have any sort of interlock when specific pieces are removed? Right now my seat, front faring, and chin faring are removed.

 

[Negative]

Unless you pulled lose a wire somewhere in the process of pulling those pieces off I would say no ...

Let me step back to my bike and stare at it hoping for it to telepathically give me the answer .... Brb ...

 

[Negative]

Alrighty ... when you turn the key on (with the killswitch in the run position) does a relay on the left side of the front fairing area (as you sit on the bike) click? ... this is backtracking from the ECM to see if there's a faulty relay before the ECM itself ... If there IS a click when you turn the key on, the key switch relay IS working and should be sending power to the ECM itself ... If it's NOT working then there is just one more step to check ... if it is, well we're moving right along to finding the problem man .... one step at a time ...

 

[Matthew1926]

No click at all. Tried it four or five times.

 

[Negative]

EXCELLENT !! ... We might be on to the problem here (fingers crossed)!! ... try taking the cover off to that relay box (that's the box I was asking about on the left side of the front fairing area that you were listening to), take the "KEY SWITCH" relay out, and replace it with the "START" relay ..... Now turn the key on with the killswitch in run, bike in neutral, hell pull the kickstand up too and see if the fuel pump runs and the "check engine" light comes on like it's supposed to ....

 

[Matthew1926]

Did the initial swap that you were talking about and it did not work.
Swapped top left into top right and it worked! But sadly only about half the time .
Swapped all relays back to their original position and it worked again, but still only about half the time.
My guess is that I have a sticking relay.
Is this your thought too?

 

[Negative]

I would highly doubt that you'd have three simultaneously sticking relays at once (NOT saying it's impossible, just highly improbable) ... I would scope out the wiring on the bottom of the relay box and trace the ones you can .... sounds like you've got some loose wiring somewhere ... but at least we're hot on the problems trail here !! ... relays aren't hard to test at all, if you have a couple of stray wires handy you can test them out on any 12 volt source ...

 

[Negative]

Have you done any modifications anywhere around the front of the bike or spliced into any wiring at all recently??? ... just asking out of my curiosity ...

ANOTHER thing to scope out would be the condition of the connectors in the relay housing ... are they corroded? ... spiderwebs everywhere?? ... (had that problem myself actually) ... a hit and miss connection could be further down the line but right now I'm just hunting with you around this one area as we've finally noticed progress ....