afv questions when tunning in mild temps

[WULFGODSXB]

i'm tuning in 60 degree weather and my first tune came in at 110 afv and the after second map it came in at 85 afv[down][down] i'm using mlv and 1st map matched guide with twin peaks and the next looked kind of like the 2nd map in guide but little smoother if i new how to do screen shots i would post the maps it richened map and the few red cells i bumped back up to the original value could it be the cooler weather and short runs of about 15 min 5 to 10 miles and yes the temp is above 160 and enrichment at 100

 

[WULFGODSXB]

another thought is should i just lock 100% afv and go for another run this time? i've not used this method yet of locking out the learn function and locking afv

 

[lawdog]

When you datalog you need to lock your AFV to 100% otherwise the computer will constantly adjust the AFR in learning mode and you will just be chasing weather conditions around.

I would reset the fuel maps back to stock, keep the bike in learn enable mode, then go for a run. Afterwards note your AFR then bump up your entire fuel map (times 10% with air and exhaust mods) higher then the noted AFR. Lock your AFR at 100% then go do a run and datalog. Basically you are richening up the fuel map based on what the learned AFR is to get your map close. Then locking in the AFR fixed at 100% to datalog. Fine tune from there.

For me bumping up my entire map 10% put me in the ballpark and now I am making changes to fine tune it. I have found if I get within 0.3 AFR of my goal I am happy as otherwise I am chasing weather. Ie. two runs may yield a variance up to 0.3 AFR in a certain cell.

I like to tune for 13.5 AFR cruise, 12.9 AFR above 50% throttle, and 12.5 AFR at WOT. Your engine will run noticeably cooler and have a nice power increase too. However you fuel mileage will drop 1 or 2 mpg and increased emissions. For off road use only of course!

Stock afr in closed loop is 14.7 AFR so a 10% increase in your fuel maps corresponds with a 13.5 AFR. Thats where the 10% number comes from.

Tuning is an art. You have to look at the big picture when you datalog and get close. You will never get perfect as at some point you will be chasing weather conditions. My tolerance is 0.3 AFR.

I hope this makes sense!
Brett

 

[lawdog]

Basically you first go for a run and let the computer correct to 14.7 AFR. Then you enrichen the maps to 10% greater then what the ECM liked to get your AFR at 13.5. Then you lock in your AFR at 100%, datalog, and fine tune from there.

For example. I go for a run and the bike learns/tunes to 99% AFR. So I add 10% and come up with a 109% AFR goal. Next I increase my entire fuel map individual cells by 109% and lock my AFR back at 100%. The bike will run pretty good at that point but you can wideband fine tune from there to get a perfect map.

 

[lawdog]

So here is a copy of a datalog from last night. As you can see I was a little rich at idle. I actually started datalogging before the bike was fully warmed up so it is skewed rich at idle. At cruise and midrange my target is 13.5 AFR. A tolerance range of 13.2-13.8 and I am happy. Weather, humidity, temp, accuracy of sensor give it a range. As I get closer to above 49% throttle I am for 12.9 AFR. At 100% throttle I aim for 12.5 AFR.

If you look at the map you can see in some cells I need to add fuel and some I need to take away. As you can see my cruise (6-12% throttle + 2900-3400 RPM) is dead on as that is the easiest to tune because I spend most of my time there. The rest of it there is more work for me to do and fine tune to get closer to my desired AFR.

 

[lawdog]

Also dont forget to reset your TPS every time you datalog to ensure your TPS readings are accurate!

Otherwise garbage data in = garbage data out = useless log

 

[WULFGODSXB]

when i log i set afv to 100% and when i run it threw mlv i'll stop and cut when the afv changes. i went on another short ride inbetween rain showers today and ran the log both before afv change and fulllogwith change. today it only dropped to 95. the full log gave me a nice looking map the pre change map hardly changed but both analyzer runs removed reasonable amount of fuel from low to mid areas is it possible i'm running that part to rich so when it learns style its cutting back

 

[dallasb]

Lawdog did you check your static timing before you started tuning? I'm just asking because I need to check mine but not sure what it entails.

 

[WULFGODSXB]

its pretty simple just follow guide just have to get some rivets that fit the cover

 

[lawdog]

I did not check the static timing as the bike is an 2009 with 1k miles. I made a couple minor adjustments to the timing maps but mostly just left it stock. I figured without a load dyno I might as well throw darts at a board to get it right.

As far as the static timing I am pretty confident (if it was factory set correctly) that it is correct since it is a new bike. I have never checked it myself so I cannot give any advice on it. Sorry.


If you dont want to wideband it the easiest way to tune it is to read your AFR, lock it 10% richer, and call it a day. That will ballpark you at 13.5 AFR, takes 5 minutes, and gives you a very noticeable difference. Or if your anal like me you buy a wideband and spend a couple weeks tuning it. Hopefully my 02 bung arrives soon so I can start on the front cyl.

 

[lawdog]

If you dont lock your AFR when datalogging your ECM will up or lower your AFR% as it learns. At that point you are only learning that your ECM is working correctly! LOL.

If the ECM knocked the AFR % down to 95% I would lower your fuel maps by 5%, lock your AFR at 100% and you should see your AFR at 14.7. Alternatively increase your fuel maps by 5% (to get to 105%), lock 100% AFR, and you should be running 13.5 AFR and be pretty close to being on target. (Well my target of 13.5 AFR anyways)

When I say lock AFR at 100% I mean put it at 100% AFR then turn off closed loop learn enable. IE. setting the O2 sensor read above max rpm so the ECM stops trying to change AFR to achieve stoich (14.7 AFR).

 

[GatorBuell]

Lawdog, I think the disconnect is that your using different data logging software than most of us. Megalog automatically lowers the afv as you increase the rpm and tps position. Once your tps hits 80% it drops to 13.7 afr then 13.5,13.0 at max throttle.

The only thing about locking your afv is it does not allow your ecm to make changes for the environment. I know a few people that do with out problems but for a beginner it could cause problems. If your map is not right you could shorten the lifespan of your motor or worse.

 

[WULFGODSXB]

so gatorbuell when i'm logging should i use full run in megalog even after the afv change or only use log up untill change like i said i wish i could show you guys screen shots still trying to figure that one out. no disrespect to lawdog your knoledge seems 10x mine but it looks like you use a totally different program. i admit i'm scared to lock the valve just because i don't 100% understand it im still old school carb guy and this is my 1st fuely. if analyzer was not lowering numbers i wouldn't worry about i'm just afraid of leaning it out to much

 

[WULFGODSXB]

ok figured it out

this is the map i'm running currently that cut back to85%

 

[WULFGODSXB]

this is after a short run resetting afv to 100% and stopping the logg when it right before it dropped to 95%

this when i run full log all the way which map should i use if either [confused]

 

[GatorBuell]

You want to log with your afv locked at 100% and your closed loop learn enable off. Run that log threw the ve and paste that to your rear map. Copy and paste that to the front map and add 3 to the entire front map. Unlock the learn enable and go for a ride. I usually ride the bike a few days before my next log. Then I do the process all over again. Once I have a good map built I start hitting the hard parts like high RPM overrun and different rpm roll on's. You will get to the point that the numbers are only changing a few points back and forth. Thats about as good as you will get with out a dyno or duel wideband O2's. Then unlock everything and log a good ride to see if your afv jumps around a lot. Mine swings 5 to 6 +/- points around 100 depending on the weather. Most of the time its at 98%.

 

[WULFGODSXB]

it's a nice morning for us unemployed here in ohio so i 'm going to throw stock map back in add 5% lock afv and turn off closed loop learn and take it for a ride

 

[Jabaniz]

gator how are you determining your overrun and roll on's?

 

[lawdog]

He is talking about the rpms that you normally dont run in. Its easy to tune the WOT, cruise, and idle rpm as you spend allot of time there. But the high RPM / low TPS or low RPM / high TPS are harder to tune.

When datalogging I make a couple WOT runs, the start in first run it up to redline, second to redline, third to redline, then fourth to redline, I try to bring 5th and 6th as high rpm as possible without going too fast. Slow and smooth giving the bike time to run in each RPM/TPS cell to get a good AFR reading.

The idea is to try and hit all the cells of the map. So fast acceleration, slow acceleration, deaceleration, cruise, WOT, idle, etc...

Def have to do it out in the country as I am speeding up, slowing down, etc...

 

[xoptimizedrsx]

you guys datalogging also remember the MLV is not seeing acceleration and deceleration fuel values so its using these as its target since its not in the log as a condition and omitting those files. make sure you use as few twists of the throttle and if you have to decel let it all the way off the go back into it smooth.

It will save you much time.

Now on afr on the xb bikes once you get below 13.0 the peek hp starts dropping. I have a few years of time on these ecms and buells on the dyno. worn out a couple engines and tires. Even put one engine through the test till I finally broke it. this was done on purpose to see thresholds. the xb's have way to much timing and the maps are stacked rich on one then lean on the other. just a sniffer up the exhaust wont cut it. you can be rich on the front and lean on the rear . blend these two together you look as if you good. wrong its bad. I have tested afr and timing as low as 12.0 and as high as 17.0 as long as its even the bike stays smooth. get it offset it gets lumpy. bucks and kicks.

This is where most people feel the bucking feeling; its from timing and offset fuel maps. If you even up the maps on the afr and it will smooth out.

I run a 15.8 afr at 55 mph and 70 mph. i get 62 mpg and no ping or heat issues. took apart a engine to look for burn in the pistons and cut the plugs to see if it had alum spots . found none.

now 15.8 set even runs smooth but does have less power overall. but when i crack it my fuel kicks to 13.0 then tapers to 13.2/13.4. which is where i found peek Hp on the dyno. I even tested on quite a few big twins and other v twins. It seems the 13.2 is the best afr I found. Note the i is on the usa fuel with 10% alch.

Now if I run a few other fuels I can set the afr at 12.5 for peek hp. Like a few other guys in Germany, France and Italy. They have 12.5 afr which its fuel type making this value. different fuels burn different thats all.