I was wondering if anybody else has experienced this...this is probably 10+++ datalogs to get to this point and now I have to pay IDS to reconfigure my existing ECM....The tuning portion he has been awesome...the idle issue has been the hurdle he has been struggling with...between the IAT settings, insulating the wire to the sensor, merging EBR files, now running into some "auto zeroing" issue...I just wanted to see if some of the senior Buell forum guys had a similar stuggle...that what I thought the forum was about??? Help a fellow Buell enthusiast in need...
Anyone familiar with Buell ECM stuff? ECMSpy etc?
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My advice was to stick with what your tuner recommended.
If I was doing your tuning, and asked you to do something, and you chose to go elsewhere... well that would be the end of that. All those datalogs for nothing.
I think I know whats happening here, but the tuning and running in open loop is adding a whole bunch of variables, who knows whats been changed and whether its correct or not. Only Dave knows as running in open loop is his thing. Sounds like the firmware has been corrupted to me.
So, the tuning portion has been awesome up until the point he asked you to spend money?
I thought this was what you asked:
This is more likely what you meant:
Obviously my advice and your tuners advice are not valid.
If I was doing your tuning, and asked you to do something, and you chose to go elsewhere... well that would be the end of that. All those datalogs for nothing.
I think I know whats happening here, but the tuning and running in open loop is adding a whole bunch of variables, who knows whats been changed and whether its correct or not. Only Dave knows as running in open loop is his thing. Sounds like the firmware has been corrupted to me.
So, the tuning portion has been awesome up until the point he asked you to spend money?
I thought this was what you asked:
This is more likely what you meant:
Obviously my advice and your tuners advice are not valid.
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He also is not guaranteeing this will fix the issue because I think he is stumped. And when I spoke to Tim at IDS he cannot guarantee that the files will be compatible with the ecmdroid/spy files as he said he is not familiar with it. So I have 2 sources not guaranteeing success. That is why I am reaching out to the forum as the experiences with situations is vast amongst a forum? We are 95% percent there as the bike perform great but idle stoplight to stop light is the problem. In heavy traffic its very annoying to be at 1300 rpms and the start hunting from 1050 to 1300. Takes all the good out of it....
Now this information is helpful. I'm with them on thinking this is likely a firmware issue, but I couldnt guarantee it.
A "certain forum member" wound up discovering a weird driveability issue that turned out to be a bad ECM, which baffled all of us as it gave no clues of being defective.
Is it running rich when it starts hunting or lean? Unfortunately, running in open loop is going to make it difficult to tell, but maybe you have access to a portable sniffer?
The problem with most of my advice is that it is going to be to unwind most of Dave's tuning and modifications. I will state that I am NOT a better tuner or more knowledgable than he.
A "certain forum member" wound up discovering a weird driveability issue that turned out to be a bad ECM, which baffled all of us as it gave no clues of being defective.
Is it running rich when it starts hunting or lean? Unfortunately, running in open loop is going to make it difficult to tell, but maybe you have access to a portable sniffer?
The problem with most of my advice is that it is going to be to unwind most of Dave's tuning and modifications. I will state that I am NOT a better tuner or more knowledgable than he.
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Which would lead me to think the firmware is corrupted.
You may be fighting two problems, also.
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when I check the IAT setting after doing the TPS reset and running it is at 97% so it tells me it is leaning it out...correct? When I shut the bike off and restart it goes back to 100% as if the TPS is going back to default after cycling the power- which is Daves theory. And since he was using a EBR tune he said there was there is some type of auto zero funtion that is used in a BUE2D firmware. Thats why he wants to try upgrading the firmware...does that make sense?
And by the way it originally wasn't about the money because I initially spent 300, + 150 with IDS, 180 with EJK-piggyback tuner, and 180, +150, + 50 with David. If it was my harley or most Japanese bikes I would have used my powervision and been done with it...
Unless they had a firmware issue, like you're having now.
I had an ECM with BUEIX firmware that would revert the AFV to the previous value after the key was cycled. I had HD update the firmware to the latest available (BUE2D) and the only way they do it, comes with everything including the latest factory tune offered.
It fixed my AFV re-set problem (and they had heard of that issue with that firmware), but I was unable to use my original tune because different firmware versions are NOT compatible. Dave from Buelltooth knows this and it is the same thing he is telling you. Any attempt to defeat the ECM burning safeties and re-install your tune after the firmware change could leave you with a plastic brick that looks exactly like your ECM.
*Technically (if anyone cares), the different firmware versions hold the fuel map in different areas of the ECM's memory and thats why they stop running. Basically the program can't find its values.
It fixed my AFV re-set problem (and they had heard of that issue with that firmware), but I was unable to use my original tune because different firmware versions are NOT compatible. Dave from Buelltooth knows this and it is the same thing he is telling you. Any attempt to defeat the ECM burning safeties and re-install your tune after the firmware change could leave you with a plastic brick that looks exactly like your ECM.
*Technically (if anyone cares), the different firmware versions hold the fuel map in different areas of the ECM's memory and thats why they stop running. Basically the program can't find its values.
Thanks Cooter, I am going to copy your thread and email David as I believe this is good information...As far as sending to IDS, I am probably better off finding a new ECM with the BUE2D firmware rather than wasting $50 dollars plus shipping and have a plastic brick as you say....thanks,
If it’s not about that money, why not just send it to IDS like Dave requested? Dave may not be the most liked person in the Buell community, but he is a smart cookie. I may not agree with his thoughts on tuning, and other things but I respect them.
However , you have gone so far down this path with him, why stray?
Have you checked with any of the Buell Facebook forums about this issue? I think most of the ECM tuning hotshots hang out there. I only dive into mine when the bike is having issues. They do it for fun.
It's hard to jump in and even pretend to know how far you two have gone in the tuning process, but I would diagnose it this way:
1) I know this is odd, but hear me out. Connect ECMDroid, look at the data channels, reset the TPS, and note the value (should be about 4*). Now fetch, and re-burn, the same program. Did the value stay? Does it still stay after cycling the key?
2) I think you mean IAC at 97 not "IAT" and thats well within normal running. According to the manual it takes "10 minutes of idling" to re-set the IAC after a change. Are you doing that? or are you shoving in a program and going for a hot lap immediately ?
3) Beg, borrow, or steal, a stock ECM and no matter how it runs... does it still have the same symptoms? Yes? Well then you just eliminated both the ECM and the tune from being the problem. Maybe your tuner has one you can borrow?
1) I know this is odd, but hear me out. Connect ECMDroid, look at the data channels, reset the TPS, and note the value (should be about 4*). Now fetch, and re-burn, the same program. Did the value stay? Does it still stay after cycling the key?
2) I think you mean IAC at 97 not "IAT" and thats well within normal running. According to the manual it takes "10 minutes of idling" to re-set the IAC after a change. Are you doing that? or are you shoving in a program and going for a hot lap immediately ?
3) Beg, borrow, or steal, a stock ECM and no matter how it runs... does it still have the same symptoms? Yes? Well then you just eliminated both the ECM and the tune from being the problem. Maybe your tuner has one you can borrow?
never been on the Buell Facebook before...as far as downloading the file and resetting the TPS then noting the value and then fetching and reburning the same file...have not done that before. Will try it. And as far as running it after a TPS reset-I usually idle it for 5 minutes or so then run stop light to stop light to the freeway and run about 10 miles each way before calling that a complete TPS reset. and I actually did ask David about having another ECM with the BUE2D firmware on it as well as sending Cooters comments to show another similar experience to him. Thanks for the advice guys as this has been a more challenging task than I ever dreamed of.
TPS re-set functions immediately.
IAC re-set needs "10 minutes of idling".
No stop lights, no freeway, no BS. Most electronic things are pretty particular that you follow the instructions.
I'm with 34nineteen. If you trust your tuner, and your tuner is telling you to do something, I'd just do it. But whatever, your call.
IAC re-set needs "10 minutes of idling".
No stop lights, no freeway, no BS. Most electronic things are pretty particular that you follow the instructions.
I'm with 34nineteen. If you trust your tuner, and your tuner is telling you to do something, I'd just do it. But whatever, your call.
Update....last night I was monitoring the data channel and logger while running...I noticed the TPS % steady at 3.8-4.0 at idle on first start up. blipped the throttle and it rose as I increase throttle percentage as normal. As the bike got hotter the bike started rising idle up to 1300 rpms and the drop to 1050 or so and at the same time the TPS percentage was fluctuating the same. Turned off the bike with the ignition on and it did the same thing. Called it a night and wanted to see what it did cold with the ignition on the next day. This morning I turned the ignition on monitored the TPS on the data channel and it was steady at 3.8% blipped the throttle-steady as could be...returned back to stationary position and it was steady as could be...I think TPS is bad and starts acting up when engine gets hot....what do you guys think?
Get some "freeze spray" and spray the TPS when the motor gets hot to cool the part down and see if the values come back to normal. It could also be a leaking seal which is leaking more/less air as the motor warms up and things expand. Every time I come up with a possible theory I have to shoot it down once I realize its running open loop.
Fixed.
