At whits end PLEASE HELP !!

[judoman69]

I’m am at my whit’s end.
I have a 2004 Xb12R Firebolt. I just bought it and of last season and have only rode it for a few months if that even. Fortunately I have another bike so I’m still riding but I am overly frustrated with this Buell.
Almost immediately after I bought the bike put a new Drummer Exhaust and EBR race ECU. The bike was running like shit with the race ECU because I was unable to do a TPS reset. I put the factory ECU and bypassed the exhaust baffle. The bike ran a while like that and I finally did a TPS reset with a DCI and run the bike a while with no issues other then what seemed like a weak battery.
I replaced the Drag Battery with a Yusa and it seemed to fix the issue for a week until the bike started doing the same thing all over again.
It would be hard to start and would take a few sec to finally crank over if it would at all. On more than on occasion I would get home or to work and bike would be running but would not crank over 5 sec after being turned off.
So here are the tests that were done.
Cranking the motor over draws then battery down to well under 9 volts, the bike runs but does not charge the battery back up till a 12 v source is added then the voltage regulator kicks in and charges then battery at 13.45 volts. This bike will crank my other bikes battery down to under 9 volts and even my car battery.
So I replaced the starter.
No change, still cranks batteries down to under 9 volts.
Here is where then frustration really sets in.
Boosted with my can while running the bike will crank and run, but I runs like crap. It sounds like It wants to stall. I have done numerous TPS resets with no avail.
Pulled then plugs and they have white and red residue on them showing then bike is running rich, no surprise there.
Bike seems to crank over super easy with the plugs out.
I have not done a compression test as of yet that then next. Compression should be 120 PSI
I have not put a torch wrench on the crank yet. I don’t know what value to look for there?
I NEED YOUR INPUT!

 

[Shawns]

Let start with do you have manual for the bike? If the answer is no, there is a link at the top of the page to download one. You should never start a bike with a car battery while its running. Damage to your regulator will occur. I would gather that your regulator is damaged. You should do a test on your stator as well. These bikes can discharge a battery in no time, so a properly charged battery is paramount. I always recommend that the bike be put on a battery tender so you have good amperage for starting. There is a lot of knowledge on the forum so we should be able to get you going. Here is another link if you don't find what you need. http://buellmods.com/index.php/viewdownload/15-xb-r-firebolt/107-2004-firebolt-manual

 

[judoman69]

i have been doing some read up on the pages and nothing has really been specific as to the cause of the huge draw from the starter. i am pretty sure its not the regulator as it measures out the 13 + volts when the bike is running and the batteries voltage is boosted over 12 volts. i am guessing the regulator does not see the battery under a specific voltage and the starter is drawing the battery down under 9 volts on start up.
if it is the regulator and maybe its intermittent, that does not explain the rough idle or the huge draw from the starter.
i plan to get an amp meter on the the starter wire but i don't know exactly what to spec should be.

thanks for the heads up on the heads up not to boost with a running car. ill make sure not to do that again, and for the link i started to read the manual but nothing is exactly what i am experiencing.

 

[Shawns]

No worries. I just replaced my charging system(rotor nut came loose). My regulator was over charging and under charging intermittently. As far as the running ruff, if you don't have enough voltage there isn't enough power to go around to work all your systems correctly. I would also check your cables. Make sure there are no green meanies and everything is tight. If the cable pos or negative was or is corroded it can seem like the starter is drawing too much amperage and sucking the life out of your battery. Corrosion will cause resistance and not let the starter get the correct amperage to needs. Make sure all your grounds are clean. I would also spay them with some battery anticorrosion spray. I would have the battery checked too. Just cause it's new doesn't mean it's good. You can take both to your local auto zone and have them checked for free. Should be the same starter as the sportsters so I would gather they are a dime a dozen. Your local alt/starter repair facility may be able to give you the specs your looking for. If you don't want to print a manual, I have a few hard copies from working on my buddies.

 

[judoman69]

all great point and short of checking every single wire in the bike all connections are solid and clean. then were all checked and double checked before during and after the starter was replaced to no avail. as far as i can tell (and i will check the specs) the charging system on the bike is operating as it should. unless i find out the regulator should be charging up from any voltage my suspicions is that the starter is drawing the voltage down so far that then regulator is not seeing it and not pushing current to the battery, (cause as soon as i piggyback a good battery in to the system for a second and the regulator sees 12 volts it starts pushing 13+ into the battery even after then piggy back is removed.
i will check my generator and regulator connections and the rotor nut for sure.

thanks
keep the ideas coming

 

[AlanS]

Here's how I'd begin trouble-shooting:

Disconnect the battery and charge it up fully. Charge it overnight on a low amperage (2 amp) rate. Take it off the charger and let it 'rest' a few hours. Then, measure the voltage. It should be 12.6-12.7 volts. If the voltage is less than 12.5V, there's likely a problem with the battery. Less than 12.6 there could still be an issue. (A 'healthy' bike battery should show 12.7 volts when fully charged). If you've already done something like this, scratch this step.

Assuming the battery holds a charge (at or near 12.7 VDC with no load), reconnect it to the bike. Measure the battery again, before turning the key, to confirm the connected-voltage equals the stand-alone voltage. (Here, you're making sure there's no unknown drain on the battery related to the circuits on the bike).

Start the bike. Measure the DC voltage at the battery terminals. At idle (1000 RPM) I'd expect at least 12.5 volts DC; at 3000 RPM I'd expect at least 13.5 volts DC.

If you've already done these checks, apologies. Then you're on to the stator, and regulator...

You need to start with a known-good battery before trouble-shooting the charging system, else you're liable to chase your tail. I've been there/done that.

If the battery is 'good' per this check, then there's a charging system problem. If the battery is 'dead'…you have to replace it before further trouble-shooting. Least that's the way I'd approach it.

One last thing. It's possible for a faulty charging system to damage/compromise, or in an extreme case even kill a battery. So if the charging system output is low (or high) don't run a good battery for extended periods.

Alan

 

[Shawns]

[up]

 

[user_deleted]

cause as soon as i piggyback a good battery in to the system for a second and the regulator sees 12 volts it starts pushing 13+ into the battery even after then piggy back is removed.

should not be the case and sign of VR on the way out.
also remove front pulley cover and inspect your #77 plug. these often cause charging system problems.

 

[judoman69]

thanks alan s for then advise. all these test have been done and i have moved on from the charging system..

my big concern is the fact that the starter is drawing so hard and not firing the bike.

i am starting to think its a stuck valve or a dry cylinder. ill need to compression test the cylinders and put a torque wrench on the crank to see how much drag there is on the system.

unfortunately that does not explain then fact that the bike runs.... like a bag crap but it runs.......