Bit of a Project going- bad cam bushing and bike doesn't run

[SweatingYeti]

Hello all! Forum newbie here, but not to Buell.


Just so you can see where I am at here.
2004 XB12R, about 8,200 miles on it- I put 800 miles on the bike and it broke

I'm not exactly sure what happened. I rode about 35 miles away, overnight, parked and when I fired it up the next morning, it had a slight knock to it. It wasn't there the previous day. So I get it home, and it's knocking worse and worse the closer I get. So I get home, change the oil. Hadn't changed the oil yet since I bought it used. Fire it up, still knocking... take quick ride (half mile) shuts off. Like mechanically, shuts off. Won't restart so I get it home via trailer.

I have a video of the bike knocking at idle before it wouldn't restart, I'll upload that to youtube and post a link then.

Friend looks at it says it sounds like a timing thing. Cool, pop the cam cover off. #2 bushing is worn and on the cam sprocket itself is worn.




Okay. So that explains something. But it should still run even if the cam bushing is messed up.
So I pull primary side, to inspect the stator, and I don't have a Jim's tool, so I'm on a brief standby.

I'm not asking for miracles or a fix all, but this is to gather input from you experienced guys rather. I'm not poor but I wont be overnighting parts, this will be a month-long or longer post.

I have spent the last week lurking and searching for info, but I don't have a good enough working knowledge on these things yet. I am ordering ECMspy cables, and other parts/tools I know I will be needing. At this point I'm expecting to have to pull the motor and see what it looks like inside, I kinda think this poor guy was ridden hard and put away wet one too many times. And please don't make fun of my poor man bike stand.

So here goes nothing, and thanks for letting me join the forum!

 

[ToneTheMoan]

Hello mate welcome to the forum! sorry i cant help you much with the problem and far from making fun of your stand i was going to commend you on it! thats really good make do ingenuity i am impressed seriously! but how the hell did you get it up there? (sorry to go off subject already!) :eagerness:

 

[UMDterp13]

PM me your email. I have videos of rod/crank knocks from
My past bikes. We'll get phone number exchanged as well.
I should be able to walk you through or provide whatever info needed for this.
You're gonna need at least a service manual and maybe gasket kit if you don't plan to replace whole motor.

The cams/pushrods make small "Ching Ching Ching" noise where the crank makes "thunk thunk thunk".
Can also figure out parts/motor options with you.

 

[Chicknstripn]

Go to buellmods.com and download a service manual. The manual will help you come up with a systematic approach to trouble shooting your issue. You may have a top end issue within the rockerbox.
BTW you should loosen up your rockerbox and fasteners within the rockerbox before removing the cam cover. There's still a lot of pressure on your pushrods, tappets and cams which could cause damage to the cam bushings when removing the cover without first removing all that pressure via the rockerbox.
I know you want to find your problem but be careful not to get too ham fisted and cause yourself more work than is necessary.
When you changed your oil did you discover any metal in it? Check the drain plug and shine a flash light in the oil. If your drain plug has a Mohawk or your oil shimmers likes a clear midnight
sky... ...you definitely have an internal mechanical issue of some sort.
Have you checked your primary? The fluid and the chain to see if there are any clues as to what's going on?
Anyway, download the manual and start studying. I think an engine removal or at the least a rotation is in your near future.
Good luck

 

[UMDterp13]

Yea primary could be knocking, good point

 

[SweatingYeti]

It's actually a ramp on a hinge. So I drop the back down, push the bike up, hold it, have someone else slide a floor jack under, jack the back up to level, then slide saw horses under to stabilize it all and ratchet strap the bike to the pole in front of it that the front tire rests on. Then when it's not in use, the whole thing swings up, and I just attach it to the pole so it's out of the way!

 

[SweatingYeti]

I'm in the process of pulling the motor now to relieve all the tension on the pushrods. I learned that this week as well, but all my friends work during the day when I'm off... Kinda tough to do alone.
When I drained the oil there were a few small pieces of metal flakes, but nothing I would call my local congressman over. Stuff I figured was from clutch wear or what have you. The chain looks good, as well as all the teeth to the sprockets in there. I'm planning on pulling he motor.
i am using this motor to learn on, so I plan on rebuilding it. I know it's not a cheap endeavor, but it's going to be worth it for the knowledge in the future. I can't get over how amazing these bikes are, and I'd be hard pressed to buy anything different

I'm located in southern PA of any of you guys are local and enjoy a beer and a broken bike .

Thanks for your quick responses guys. I sure do appreciate it.

 

[Theycallmecrash]

I suspect the crank failed. Sends a few shards of crap through the oil, that then got wedged in your cam bushing. If the crank got bad enough it may have caused the piston skirt to ride the cylinder wall and combined friction stalled the motor.

 

[UMDterp13]

Lunatic should be along any second. He'll be delighted to see a PA Bueller...

If you're gonna rebuild it then order case sealant, complete gasket kit & maybe oils now so you don't have to wait when it's time to reassemble.

I have a extra Jim's tool, whatever new $1 is, give me $1/2

 

[rchuff]

I'm from Eastern Pa, Willow Grove. Where are you located? I have an 07 12r

 

[SweatingYeti]

http://youtu.be/xqCW4qeka_0

This is the link for the bike when it ran, taken about 7 minutes before it shut off on me. [let me know if it doesn't work]

I've since downloaded the manual, good there. I'll PM you about that JIMS tool.

And I'm in the Lancaster area. About 15 minutes off the T-pike.

 

[squidbuellie]

Bikes toast..... That's a rod knock....
Take a magnet pen and stick it in the oil bag.... If you don't have one you can clean out a gallon milk jug and cut the top off so you can drain the oil into it and you should see a rainbow of shavings...
If there is no shavings you can pour the oil back into it. Then you can trouble shot other things. But more then likely the lower end is bad.


:just read the whole post... New format is still messing with me... I'm not sure what Kim's tool your looking for... But if your looking for the tool to remove the primary chain... Save your money...you can remove the primary chain with one of the three house hold things...
1) a hardwood wedge and the bike in 5th gear
2) a 6in craftsmen screw driver ran parallel with the primary chain handle first to wedge in between the clutch basket and chain.
3) cut three two inch strips from a 1/2 nylon plastic cutting board. Screw the three pieces together stepped about a 1/2 inch apart then cut the back flush at five inches then stick it between the chain and sprocket.

But from the looks of it you have a lot of linear crank movement.... And that is bad....like bad cases bad.... And to be honest then the motor is not worth fixing.. Unless you have unlimited access to a line bore machine.

 

[user_deleted]

Lunatic should be along any second. He'll be delighted to see a PA Bueller...

If you're gonna rebuild it then order case sealant, complete gasket kit & maybe oils now so you don't have to wait when it's time to reassemble.

I have a extra Jim's tool, whatever new $1 is, give me $1/2

this boy and i spoke on the phone months ago about this project and my recommendation based on the bikes' history and his wrenching capabilities or lack thereof was to either pick up a decent motor for plug and play or break up for parts and use that money to buy a quality bike. to each his own.

 

[buell248]

this boy and i spoke on the phone months ago about this project and my recommendation based on the bikes' history and his wrenching capabilities or lack thereof was to either pick up a decent motor for plug and play or break up for parts and use that money to buy a quality bike. to each his own.

John, love this pic, ouch!

http://www.buellxb.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2369&d=1448541851&thumb=1

 

[user_deleted]

LOL Dave. that old Glenn Ford could certainly deliver the goods in his day.

 

[ocgreenmachine]

I had something similar happen on my sportster two years ago. Started off as a knocking, then engine seized. I opened up the cam chest and long story short, my crank failed, sending metal shards into the system. The shards caused my #1 bushing to seize and caused my pinion gear to rotate a quarter turn on the pinion shaft, which threw my timing off. That led to my valves striking my pistons and bending my pushrods.

Ended up having to replace crank, cam bushings, cams, oil pump, pushrods, lifters, valves, pistons, heads (I ended up doing a 1250 upgrade from Hammer Performance).

When I pulled the oil tank, there was a lot of metal shavings in the tank.

So if you are getting some knocking, it could be your crank starting to go. If so, you should find metal in your oil tank. Use a telescoping magnet to see if any shavings come out of the oil tank. If it is the crank, you will need to replace the crank and flush the entire system of those shavings before you get a catastrophic failure. 2008+ cranks are heavier duty so if you do replace it, use that one.

If you do need bottom end service, I suggest Darkhorse Crankworks. I sent them my bottom end and they replaced and pinned all my cam bushings, replaced the crank, installed my new cams after checking runout.

 

[SweatingYeti]

Alright, so after a few hours of work this weekend and a few tasty Pabsts, I got the motor out. It looked pretty bad. I'll let the pics do the talking:


So. Yeah. Pretty much everything was shot. Except the front cylinder head and the transmission.
Should be picking up a new motor this week yet.

And a big thanks to UMDterp and lunaticfringe for the help. Thanks guys.