budget turbo build ideas

[burgurboy]

I'm simply promoting an idea. I'm not currently building a setup.

A lot of people shoot down the idea of an Xb turbo build due to cost. "Just buy an 1125". Bah, I like my Xb.

But think about it:
$125 ------- used gt15 from a VW TDI (good for 150hp)
<$150------- diy water/method injection
$50----------gm 2 bar map sensor
~$100------- exhaust/intake piping, flanges
$200--------- wideband 02 setup
$50----------- used MBC


I know I'm missing a few things (oil lines, maybe injectors, maybe a higher output FPR) but overall, if you're a competent DIYer, I feel like a solid budget turbo build could be done. And i'm not talking about cheap eBay components.

120rwhp seems like a realistic goal for a setup like this. That can be done with what? 6-8psi? With the help of EricZ's website, theoctapus, and xopti, the most difficult part (tuning) is a breeze.

Due to the fact the the 1200 is a relatively small motor (in the turbo world), it doesn't take big $$$ to make good power.

Just thinking aloud...

 

[konarider94]

talk to ericz

this is his website. he is the turbo guru
http://streetfighterperformance.com/

 

[burgurboy]

Right, he's really paved the path for turbo bells. He even has step by step instructions on how to program a GM 2 bar map sensor. One of the most expensive tasks in turbocharging (adjusting fuel for boost) can be setup for $50 in less than an hour!

 

[konarider94]

for that price id be all over it though. i already have a wb o2 setup. you think you can actually make it work for less than 700 bucks? i think id like to shoot for 150hp if i were to do it.

there was a time i couldve gotten one of those gt15's for free too

 

[snrusnak]

I personally think some of those prices are a bit optimistic. I would say it could be done for $1,000-$1,500 on a budget though.

 

[konarider94]

what about oil. our bikes run pretty low oil pressure. is it enough for the turbo?

 

[burgurboy]

Right, there are definitely things I may have left out. I totally agree with you though, I think an extremely resourceful DIYer could do it for 1000-1500

If you're shooting for 150whp... you'll need a bigger budget. Then you get into big injectors, HD clutch plates, possibly a chain drive to hold the power, etc.

I think 140-150CHP would be do-able on this setup though.

As for oil, IIRC, Ericz is only using a jumbo oil cooler on his stock setup.

 

[wolfo68]

I thought he had a scavenger pump on it too

 

[burgurboy]

Mmmm. I may have missed that.... I'll have to do some more reading.

 

[EricZ]

Cometic MLS top end gasket kit is another ~$100, wiring and electrical connectors another ~$50, BOV another ~$150, injectors needed for 120hp ~$100, electric scavenge pump ~$200, clutch plates ~$100 and other odds and ends add up real quick. Trust me

That's another $700, more than doubling your initial budget. Not saying you are on the wrong path but things really do add up if you want to put together something that works properly. I would love to see more turbo XBs on the road and I am all about helping others make it happen. Let me know how I can help!

 

[Blastonia]

What .. No variable vane turbo? intercooler?

 

[spazz8448]

hmmmmmm i would really like to do something like this but it will be after i save the money to bore my xb12r 1490cc

 

[Rhino1]

What .. No variable vane turbo?  intercooler?

Variable-vane turbos are not all they're cracked up to be (trust me--I own one... ), and there is no need for additional inter-cooling at modest boost levels/HP expectations (the exposed tubing from the turbo, usually mounted underneath the bike and going all the way to the intake, going by other examples here, probably provides some anyway).

It would be very cool to see other turbo Buells. I remember helping a good friend Turbo charge a CBR900RR when those crazy Texans were doing it and Road Racing them in the 90's (forget their names...). It was a fun project, with some trial and error pains, but it was very rewarding and very inexpensive (compared to what truly building/blue-printing the motor would have cost).

Most important thing is learn what you can. plan well, have at at it, and have fun. [up]

 

[burgurboy]

Sweet. This has turned into a pretty good thread. So Ericz, the stock clutch plates are no good for 120 whp?

Also, I have a couple friends with turbo Audi's/VW's most are running at least stage 1 tunes, rendering their stock diverter valves useless (can't hold the higher pressures). They all upgrade and have their perfectly good OEM DV's at home. Could something like this be used as opposed to tradional BOV?

What about stock Injectors with a high pressure regulator?

Just wondering... what is the top end gasket kit for? Just to be safe?

I'm not trying to "cut corners", just trying to see what we could get by with when only shooting for ~120whp

I also dont mean to discredit any of the upgrades you've done/suggest because, well, your bike is insane. I reckon a motor designed for 60 horse making, what? +250?, needs all the help it can get...

Thanks for the insight!

 

[Racinjitter]

Just a thought about intercooling. While you don't really need one at low boost (less than 10psi), you could easily add a small water cooled inline pipe intercooler into the piping. Like a heat exchanger from a snowmobile. Or like this... Water to air Intercooler

But then we have other choices, like this... Air to air IC

The A2A will be much more simple, and efficient for the street. I haven't taken any measurements yet to see what is feasible, I'll cross that road when/if I get there. I just wish that there were more options for small turbos out there. I'l love to run a BW EFR, or anything with current technology into it.

I've been poking around EricZ's site learning about what he did. I'd definitely love to pick his brain about a few things. I'm the type of guy that finds the limits of the stock parts before upgrading. (My last 100% stock engine made 405whp/607wtq, with a simple turbo/injector/tune)

Anyhow, just showing some more ideas to mull over.

 

[user_deleted]

go with nitrous, son. one-third the price of complete turbo w/intercooler kit, one-fifth the amount of assembly time, 40% across the board average HP increase, and still blows up in same approx. amount of time.

 

[EricZ]

The gasket kit is needed because the stock head gaskets absolutely will not handle more than 5psi or so.

As for the injectors and fuel pressure, you will find that the stock injectors will run very near 100% duty cycle at 50psi around 120hp which is far beyond where they should be run. That 50 psi is a dynamic pressure, compensated for boost pressure. The stock in-tank FPR setup will not maintain 50psi at the injector tip under boost. You either have to run an external boost referenced regulator or run a higher pressure in-tank reg. The external reg is the best option, but you can run a 60 or 65psi in-tank regulator. The 60psi in-tank regulator will keep you above 50psi up to about 10psi of boost and the 65psi in-tank regulator will provide enough pressure up to about 15psi of boost. You don't really want to allow the dynamic fuel pressure to drop too far below 50psi or the injector spray pattern will suffer.

Stock clutch plates and spring will handle 90-100ft/lbs but that's really their limit. You should include either upgraded plates or a stiffer spring so you don't quickly kill your clutch. Stock may hold initially but it won't last very long. Upgrading the plates is the better of the two since the XBs have issues with the clutch ball/ramp flange cracking on the primary cover. A stiffer clutch spring will only make that more likely to happen.

You could use a diverter valve from a car but my experience with them has been too troublesome to suggest them to anyone else. Their diaphragm materials tear on a regular basis. If you use a spring/piston blow off valve you don't have any delicate parts to worry about.

There are always cheaper parts to use to make something work but, from my experience, there are certain parts that can ruin your enjoyment of the machine if you buy cheaper. It is much nicer to plan ahead and spend just a bit more money the first time and end up with a reliable and enjoyable machine than to buy the cheapest and be forced to fix little issues with what you built on a regular basis.

 

[konarider94]

Their diaphragm materials tear on a regular basis.

this is true. i am familiar with the DV he is talking about because i have an Audi as well. The upgraded DV is a piston type but still OEM and is a newer revision to the diaphragm type. The diaphragm type will easily handle 15psi peak levels without damage. They start to tear when you get to the ~20psi area with a tune. Id say you could use one of those DV's and if it ever crapped out a new piston style is only $65 bucks that will fit in the same housing. A traditional BOV would be an easier one to plumb in though.

 

[burgurboy]

Nitrous can be pretty darned reliable too with the right setup.

From what I've seen and read in the past, I'm a big fan of Water/meth injection. Its fairly cheap (if DIY'd) fairly reliable, fully "tunable", its easy to fit in a tight space. It basically steam cleans your top end also.

And due to the small power output of a low-boost Buell, it should barely sip down water. IIRC ericz said he only needs to refil his water every 4-5 tanks of gas. And he's running a pretty small water tank

I'd like to see some other folks implement some other cooling options.

If I ever turbo my Xb though, I'll be going with water injection

 

[EricZ]

Good to hear that newer valves can put up with more. My experience comes from Saab turbos and their diaphragms were horrible.

The other benefit to an adjustable piston type bov is that, during idle, manifold pressure varies a lot and requires sufficient spring pressure from a bov to prevent the valve from fluttering. I'm not sure if any of the stock diaphragm setups allow you to adjust preload.

Water injection is the way to go. My half gallon tank lasts a long time and the system is the ticket to maximum power even at lower boost levels. Being able to run more advanced ignition timing on pump gas does wonders for the torque curve!