Clutch Basket Toasted - 4900mi - Any Alternatives to OEM?

[CBi]

I've been chasing down a rattle from the primary area on my Firebolt for sometime now. Well, I finally got pissed and pulled the primary cover off and had a look.

The first thing I noticed was the clutch basket had almost 1/8" of slop (when grabbing on the ring gear and pulling one side in and the other out) causing the axial plane misalignment of the primary chain sprocket. So, I figured the bearing was bad. Brought some tools home from work to remove the clutch, and discovered two of the damper springs are just frickin SMASHED...like a full 1/4" of movement. Another three springs have about 1/16" of clearance, and one spring seems to be in spec (go figure).

I'm the second owner of this bike, and I've NEVER abused the clutch in any way. I am friends with the PO, and he doesn't strike me as the type to beat the crap out of his toys.

This is REALLY frustrating. I really love my Buell, but ******* a frickin clutch isn't rocket science. HD engineers, are you reading this?

I really, really do not want to buy another OEM clutch basket and have it fail again. Does anyone know of any aftermarket clutch assemblies? I don't expect them to be cheap, but I do want the design to be a little better than the stock unit (and hopefully lighter...wow is that thing heavy).

[mad]
Drinking a tequila and OJ to calm down...

 

[bajabomber87]

It was probably reassembled incorrectly. You can get a slipper clutch from EBR or just replace it with the stock clutch basket, and add a heavier clutch spring in place of the stock soft spring.

 

[CBi]

The clutch pack is fine, it's the basket springs that have failed.

I've been on the phone this afternoon, talking to my local dealer. Barnett does not offer a clutch basket for the XB models. Energy One does not manufacture clutch baskets...only clutch packs.

Hillbilly Motors (in Germany) shows a lightweight clutch basket available. I plan to contact them tomorrow.

I also plan to contact NRHS and see what they have available.

If I have to shell out $400+ dollars for a clutch basket, I would like it to something that is better than the stock unit.

In the mean time, I have to listen to the "you shouldn't have bought a Buell" crap.


[mad]

 

[Jabaniz]

here you go CbI im pretty sure the sportster one fits, another member PointDoc has used these

http://www.evoindusa.com/

 

[CBi]

Jabaniz,

Thanks for the info!

I sent a PM to PointDoc. Hopefully he can fill me in on the details.

 

[Jabaniz]

PointDoc has written a really good article on lighter weight parts including clutch and flywheel, helping our bikes spool up faster

 

[matt4068xb]

i too have got a unpleasant rattle in the primary on my 05 bolt 12r. i'm just shy of 10k miles. I'll be pulling mine apart to inspect this and check the tension of the primary chain also. thanks for the heads up on this, I would have never considered the clutch/basket as a cause of a noise.

is there anything specific you remember about the noise? did it only happen on release or engagement of the clutch, or was a noise present all the time and at idle?

 

[xbhooligan434]

im with you matt mine is making a noise when i first take off and i cant seem to figure out what it is? everything looks fine, i had one of the local techs look at it and he said everything looks normal but any help would be appreciated!!

 

[matt4068xb]

well i fixed my rattle but the rattle was hiding something else. I checked the primary chain tension in a couple spots and was twice the spec in the service manual. and i had marks on the (forgive my lack of bike knowledge) forward cover next to the sprocket the primary chain rides on, from the primary chain itself.[not the clutch and it's many sprockets, the other one towards the front wheel]
cold spec : 3/8 - 1/2 inch
actual : 1 & 1/16

that also explains my daym difficult low rpm [* insert any type of riding here *] the chain would be pushed then pulled, pushed then pulled. etc etc.

so i tightened the chain back within the cold spec just shy of 1/2 probably 7/16 or so. checked the oil level & put the covers back on. started it up. praying for the best.

- starts up just fine, no more inconsistent but common clink and rattle noise. enter sigh of relief . then listening listening yep there it is, a pleasant growl persisting from the forward area of the primary. under rev's the growl becomes a signature 'whir' sound signature of a bearing of sorts....

anybody got any idea what i'm in for next to cure this bearing noise??????? noise is present all the time, clutch engaged or disengaged. a unpleasant growl at idle that turns into a whirrrrrr

i don't even know what kind of bearings are in there that could have been effected.
off to searching...

 

[Thorivola]

matt, how many miles is on your XB?

take a screwdriver and put it on the right-hand side of the cases right where the two cylinders go into the crankcases and see if the noise is louder there

I have a funky sound that seemed like it was from my primary, and that turned in a damaged crank pin... no fun at all

and a warning about lightened flywheels, clutches, and so on in our bikes:
these engines sent huge amounts of vibrations along the driveline from the crankshaft and the crankshaft itself has a huge amount of noise on it
the reason the parts are so heavy on these bikes is so the inertia of the parts soaks up a lot of the vibrations and calms things down a little bit
one problem very common on the XBRR engine is that primary chain tensions get eaten up very quickly from the huge amount of vibrations
if we lighten things and so on to allow the bike to rev up faster like was done on the XBRR bike, we run into the same kind of problems and start eating chain tensions

 

[matt4068xb]

just under 10,000 miles.

I've got two distinguishable and separate sounds, from the left side primary a low growl at idle that quickly turns into the whirrr of a supercharger once 1400 rpm is met, and on the right side cover i have a extremely light ticking sound.

The ticking sounds seems almost acceptable and does not worry me nearly the amount the sound from the primary. I can hardly hear the ticking sound without holding a screwdriver to it on the right side case, not cover. If riding in my neighborhood {without helmet... i know i know, just around the block} 1st gear at 1600-2400 rpms the whirrrr almost drowns the sound of the stock exhaust.

I took the inspection plate off again to double check tension on the primary chain after riding it 10 miles to verify a warm spec(1/4-3/8 inch). it was just(1/16) outside of spec so i cranked it less then a 1/4 turn and it was alright from there. No change in prior mentioned noises.

While the inspection plate was off i noticed some wear on the teeth of the sprockets for the primary chain, front and rear, so assuming it takes two to cause problems the chain should have some wear on it as well right?

I guess i'll be taking the primary cover off to inspect all components at some point. time to read the manual. it'll be chit chat from here until i decide to rip into it or sell it...

 

[AV8guy]

I thought the slipper clutch from EBR was just for the 1125s. I am also looking into going with hydraulic. Has anyone used the EBR slipper though?[confused] I really dont know much about the clutch system

 

[AV8guy]

NM about the 1125 only thing. I just saw that there are two on the website. I cant see $999 for a slipper clutch though. Can anyone school me up on the pro/cons of slipper vs. stock clutch? thanks guys, and ladies

 

[Thorivola]

slipper allows the wheel/transmission to spin in excess of the RPMs of the crankshaft, so when you downshift you won't overrev

instead of over-revving, the crank just goes to whatever your throttle is opening it to (with some give and take of course because there is still friction), but the wheel keeps spinning at the same speed and starts to slow down with friction because no power is keeping it at the same speed anymore but also very little is forcing it to abruptly change to a slower revolution speed like happens with the stock heavy clutch

slippers are usually a much lighter pull as well, because basically you only need half or less of the spring-force

Matt, you shouldn't have any marring on the teeth of the sprockets if the bearings everywhere are correct, I've never seen a loose chain even mar the teeth, just the primary around it

it's almost sounding like your left-hand main bearing is making trouble

the ticking noise may just be the cams moving around, or if there is wear on the left-hand main bearing that could be damaging the cams as well causing them to move up and down in the gear cover

that was a common problem on the old race XBs from the early Buell race program; the crankshaft would have enough up and down noise that it would actually force the cams to wear the bushings in the gear cover into ovals

try to take some pictures in the primary when you get in there, it is also possible to get at the left-hand main bearing with just a set of clip-ring pliers and a pick to remove the oil seal

the oil seal is fairly cheap and all, but it's kind of difficult to reinstall it into the cases without something the proper size for applying even pressure across it

good luck

 

[AV8guy]

Good info still not sure about the $999 but Im sure one day seeing as how I dont plan on getting rid of the bike ever. Thanks man I really appreciate it +1[up]

 

[snareman96]

Is EBR the only place that make slipper clutches for our bikes or is there another place?

 

[Point_Doc]

http://oncycles.com/browse.asp?department=drivetrain&brand=stm