OK so when im idling in lets say first and start letting out the clutch just a little into the friction zone, you can plainly here the clutch hitting the flywheel. Sounds like 2 pieces of metal hitting each other. Was seeing if anybody notices this on their bike. Or if you can go out to your bike, pull in the clutch, put it in first and without giving it gas just release the clutch a little bit and see if you can hear it engaging
clutch noise
- Thread starter Luc R
- Start date
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Same issue with my 2009 Buell XB 12 Scg with 11000 easy miles. When I put 1st gear and release the clutch I can hear knocking noise and even can feel those knocks by my legs while the clutch at the very begin of the friction zone. This occurs mostly at low speed. If I release the clutch with more intensity or when the engine is pretty hot I feel no any knocking noise. I noticed this issue at 5000 miles. I'm not sure if this issue was earlier. But I always properly maintained and adjusted the clutch cable and the primary chain at 1000 miles , at 5000 miles and at 10000 miles, but this issue had never been eliminated.
Shifting has no issues. I do daily city traffic commute so maybe clutch plates are worn out? Can the clutch catch and release frictions force at the beginning of the friction zone so the clutch damper is knocking? Torque pulses on the input shaft causing the lash in the teeth to get taken up back and forth?
Any suggestions? Does your Buell do the same? Is it normal?
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user_deleted
Well-known member
an XB motor is based on sportster engine/trans architecture which means same firing order...same degrees of crank rotation between power pulses....same primary/trans layout. the distinctive cadence you hear at idle aka the sexy potato-potato-potato sound.....can lead to unique weirdness when releasing the clutch to get moving at low engine speeds. same thing exists in alot of other "less than 90-degree V" bikes such as the Jap big-4 V-twins. it is simply the uneven motor cadence and power pulses rattling the contents of the clutch basket upon engagement at very low speeds. the solution? proper clutch cable and clutch pack adjustment....proper primary chain adjustment....adding a bit of throttle with clutch engagement upon take-off....checking within the primary to confirm the clutch basket is tight to its shaft.....the basket cannot be wiggled laterally....the chain adjustment shoe is not worn beyond specs....the adjustment shoe is in good visual condition(must be replaced as entire unit-but reasonably priced)...and that the clutch friction plate ears and the clutch basket ears which are driven by the plate ears are also not grooved heavily and worn. a clutch pack on the way out will rattle excessively...a basket on the way out will also do it.
ocgreenmachine
Well-known member
Have you checked your primary chain adjustment? When the chain is loose, you often get metallic noises coming from the primary that sounds like "knocking". There is no way for the clutch to hit the flywheel as far as I know. If the chain is properly adjusted and the clutch is properly adjusted, then you may be looking at maybe worn clutch plates?
The latest time I adjusted the primary and the clutch was about 1000 miles ago (a few months ago) and the motorcycle had this behavior even after the adjustment.
I feel the primary is OK, because I checked the primary chain slack deviations in different places along the chain length and maximal deviation between the tightest and the weakest spot was normal according the service manual. At the same time the motorcycle move at 1st gear at low RPM pretty smooth without hard pulling back and forth which means the primary does not have excessive slack.
I feel the primary is OK, because I checked the primary chain slack deviations in different places along the chain length and maximal deviation between the tightest and the weakest spot was normal according the service manual. At the same time the motorcycle move at 1st gear at low RPM pretty smooth without hard pulling back and forth which means the primary does not have excessive slack.
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OK, tonight I've removed the primary cover and noticed that the Adjusting Screw Assembly is rocking and the Clutch Shell is rocking too.
Is it normal, that I can rock the Adjusting Screw Assembly?
Is it normal, that I can rock the Clutch Shell?
Here is the video
The rest looks good, the primary adjuster boot is OK, the primary chain is OK, the engine sprocket feels solid.
Is it normal, that I can rock the Adjusting Screw Assembly?
Is it normal, that I can rock the Clutch Shell?
Here is the video
The rest looks good, the primary adjuster boot is OK, the primary chain is OK, the engine sprocket feels solid.
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Chicknstripn
Well-known member
That little bit of movement seems normal to me. All it takes is one snap ring and the screw/adjuster assembly comes out. If you're really concerned just take the whole assembly apart. You're already half way there. And that way you can give everything a good thorough inspection. Just make sure you use a service manual and keep track of everything.
Actually now that I'm thinking about it there's a nut behind that screw assembly that may have come slightly loose. That's a big MIGHT. But like I said you're already halfway to it. Might as well be thorough and inspect everything. At least then you'll have the piece of mind that everything is torqued and assembled correctly.
Actually now that I'm thinking about it there's a nut behind that screw assembly that may have come slightly loose. That's a big MIGHT. But like I said you're already halfway to it. Might as well be thorough and inspect everything. At least then you'll have the piece of mind that everything is torqued and assembled correctly.
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I've replaced the adjusting screw assembly and the friction plates. It looks like it is OK that the adjusting screw assembly is slightly rocking, because the assembly is mounted with the retaining ring and has a gap so it has freeplay.
But the clutch basket is rocking.
The mainshaft nut is tightened, the mainshaft and the clutch hub feel solid and have no freeplay. The friction plates and all parts are OK.
So maybe there is something wrong with the needle bearing in the clutch shell?
I can not dig dipper at the moment because I'm waiting a torque wrench and a 30mm socket to unscrew the clutch basket.
But the clutch basket is rocking.
The mainshaft nut is tightened, the mainshaft and the clutch hub feel solid and have no freeplay. The friction plates and all parts are OK.
So maybe there is something wrong with the needle bearing in the clutch shell?
I can not dig dipper at the moment because I'm waiting a torque wrench and a 30mm socket to unscrew the clutch basket.
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Tonight I've removed the clutch shell and inspected the needle bearing and the clutch hub bearing race, all stuff looks like brand new and visually has no wear. But the clutch shell as you can see has freeplay. So I've ordered SKF HK 4020-2RS needle bearing on ebay and Clutch Shell Bearing Remover/Installer tool Part No. B-45926. I hope bearing replacing will help.
As I understand I can not replace the clutch hub bearing race, the only way to replace the clutch hub bearing race is replace full clutch hub assembly?
As I understand I can not replace the clutch hub bearing race, the only way to replace the clutch hub bearing race is replace full clutch hub assembly?
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I've got the bearing. Do not buy SKF HK 4020-2RS, this is wrong bearing for this application because it looks like this bearing is not for high load. The bearing has rolling cylinders (needles) are smaller and narrower than the original clutch shell bearing has. SKF - BK 4020 looks closer tho the original bearing, according the picture it has bigger needles and 24 kN dynamic load rating instead 20 kN for SKF HK 4020-2RS.
INA NK2040 looks close too.
PS: Finally I've ordered the original Buell bearing part number 9214 http://www.ebay.com/itm/301780889062
INA NK2040 looks close too.
PS: Finally I've ordered the original Buell bearing part number 9214 http://www.ebay.com/itm/301780889062
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Today I've got this very specific and expensive tool to replace the clutch shell bearing B-45926. It looks like this tool provides specific offset for the bearing while installation and prevents bearing deformation because the bearing has thin wall. Still waiting another parts to perform full clutch inspection. It looks like the stator plug is leaking, because there was always oil puddle under the starter, so I'm going to pull the plug, clean it and reinstall with black RTV silicone.
There is the low capacity bearing SKF HK 4020-2RS you can see on the pictures below I am not going to use. But it fits. As you can see the bearing rollers have smaller diameter and they are shorter then the original bearing rollers. At the same time this bearing has flanges and seals, but the original clutch shell bearing is without the flanges and without seals. This bearing has small freeplay on the tool shaft, so I'm not sure than replacing the shell bearing will eliminate the clutch shell freeplay. I'm wondering if someone disassembled the clutch on a new Buell XB and seen the same clutch shell freeplay.
There is the low capacity bearing SKF HK 4020-2RS you can see on the pictures below I am not going to use. But it fits. As you can see the bearing rollers have smaller diameter and they are shorter then the original bearing rollers. At the same time this bearing has flanges and seals, but the original clutch shell bearing is without the flanges and without seals. This bearing has small freeplay on the tool shaft, so I'm not sure than replacing the shell bearing will eliminate the clutch shell freeplay. I'm wondering if someone disassembled the clutch on a new Buell XB and seen the same clutch shell freeplay.
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OK, I've replaced the clutch shell bearing and the clutch shell still has the same freeplay as it was with old bearing I showed on the video above. So the clutch shell freeplay is normal. It looks like it was overkill the clutch shell bearing replacing. The next step is installing new friction plates but I fill it is not going to help because the old friction plates with 10000 miles and the new set of clutch friction plates look the same condition. In addition I'm going to replace the chain adjuster, but again the old chain adjusted has very small wear.
TPEHAK sorry to go off topic but where did you get that tool? want to sell yours to me?
ztied
Well-known member
Thanks for the info and time to write it up Tpehak
I'm going to keep this tool till I have the Buell like some another specific tools I bought to maintain the motorcycle. I bought the clutch shell bearing replacing tool on US ebay, part number is B-45926 (it is two parts tool, the B-45926-1 is bearing remover/installer and the B-45926-2 is bearing guide). I bought mine for 150$, but you can fined cheaper if there is no rush, here is one for example http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Buel...h-Hub-Bearing-Remover-Installer-/221180833277
Or you can ask local H-D service center if they have this tool.
Actually I feel it is possible to replace this bearing without this tool, just measure the offset of the original bearing with caliper, then carefully remove it using the same diameter socket and hammer, then carefully install new bearing using flat steel plate with hammer (cool down the bearing before installation and apply some anti seize lubricant ), then maintain necessary bearing offset with the same diameter socket and hammer.
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