DIES AT 3500RPM PLEASE HELP!

[judoman69]

my 2004 Firebolt 1200 is giving me nothing but trouble.

PLEASE HELP!!!

after way to much time and effort I have needlessly replaced the starter and the battery.

Now that I have "FIXED" the timing (it had some how become retarded) the bike runs or at least idles well.

SO HERES MY PROBLEM!!!

when you blip the throttle quickly the bike revs to 3000 - 3500 rpm then hits a wall. Not like a rev limiter. more like is flooding or lean. no black smoke from the exhaust, but no white smoke either. I do get a small smell of gas. it only does this if you role the throttle quickly, if your ginger with it, the motor will rev up well past 3500rpm.

???ANY THOUGHTS???

 

[theMelvster6]

Easier to tell with it hooked up to Ecmspy...the static timing needs to be set and left alone. Make sure grounds are good, especially to the ecm since you replaced th battery.

 

[gbalias]

1) why are you blipping? u talking about the bike is still and at idle, then you blip the throttle? or while riding?

2) did it start randomly after battery change?

3) a little more history would help....you said needlessly replace starter and batt. why needless?

4) did it run fine before, then you messed with timing and now no good?


a sequence of events would be good to know as well

 

[theMelvster6]

Yeah...these heavy flywheeled motors don't like you blipping the throttle...it'll cough no matter what. It's a little ease to get that single journaled flywheel to spin up.

 

[judoman69]

theMelvster = I am used to running a v twin and familiar with the characteristics of them. basically what I meant was if I roll the throttle as if you would off a light or in traffic to pass the bike dies. I know the body grounds are good I checked them then I did the battery and starter. I will check the ground on the CPS but I am sure its fine.

qbalias = 1) please read above about blipping. it does when throttle is turned both at idle and when ridin.
2) no the problem only come to light after the timing was adjusted.
3) the history is this. the bike ran just fine for the time I had it. until just this year when it began starting hard and running like a bag of crap. the time was retarded and cause the starter to dray and kill a battery, which then turned in to a new starter as it looked to be draying hard due to bad brushes or internals.
4) the bike started to start hard and run like crap and would not idle, it would miss fire and blow back into the throttle body. seemed to get worse as time and testing went on. I assume the CPS was vibrated loose and was rolling out of alignment. NOW the bike idles well but wont throttle up worth a crap.

SUGGESTIONS?

 

[gbalias]

i would revisit the timing issue first. you said the problem only started after you tinkered with the timing.


well, not much more to look into as far as a step one goes.

if it began starting hard and running bad gradually, thats not the timing. i would find it hard to believe the sensor rotated on its own without any prior hands being on it.


id clean the TB and do a good TPS reset, then go from there.

how are the plugs? air filter? fuel grade?

 

[theMelvster6]

We're not trying to insult your intelligence...just trying to help. We have no clue if you are experienced or not. Please forgive us, we do get a lot of newbies on the forum. Lol that being said...

1) I would be absolutely sure the static timing is correct...the easiest way is to hook it up to ecm spy and watch where it triggers the cps. It should be right at TDC.

2) I would check the mapping fuel & ignition and see if it could have been tampered with possiblly by PO. could just reburn a factory map and start from square one.

3) check the throttle position sensor. Could need to be reset...or it could be bad. It does happen. Causing error in fueling at a specific TPS/rpm.

4) make sure the throttle body is clean.

5) I'm assuming it's never been apart, the injectors could need a thorough cleaning.

 

[theMelvster6]

Let me also add...spark plugs, plug wires, and coil...especially where the plug wires plug into the coil, moister loves to get in there and corrode things causing poor contact.

 

[gbalias]

well, he said it WAS running good

"3) the history is this. the bike ran just fine for the time I had it. until just this year when it began starting hard and running like a bag of crap"

"seemed to get worse as time and testing went on"


so i dont think it would be anything in terms of mapping/ecm settings.

sounds more like a deterioration of hardware (sensor, wiring, injector, etc)



hows the fuel pump sound?

 

[judoman69]

sorry if anything said sounds defensive.... not my intention...
i am almost 100% the static timing is now good. when i first checked it the timing mark was well left of center when sending 5 volts. its now dead center when throwing 5 volts.
i have just replaced the plugs so they are new
i plan to pull the plugs and check the wires tomorrow to double check connection and spark quality.
i have done a few TPS resets and pushed a learning cycle with my DEI.
i hope i can get the ECM spy to work tomorrow as well, last time i tried i had no luck, and i wana check my AFV.
i may also throw in my EBR Race ECM and see if that changes anything.

DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO TEST A TPS OR CPS TO SEE IF THEY COULD BE FAULTY?

i assume the sensors are not the issue as it hits the 3500 rpm wall in both open and closed loop running.

 

[theMelvster6]

Well, I knew mine went bad when I would go wide open throttle...the TPS would only read 80% no matter how many resets I did. I think the The good news is you can go down to AutoZone and get a TPS Duralast # TPS213. It's much cheaper than buying from HD. The TPS has a range from like 0-5 volts as you twist the throttle it should increase voltage THROUGH that range. WOT will read right close to 5v maybe like 4.88v...if at any position the the voltage doesn't increase or even goes less, or spikes high at part throttle you have a faulty TPS.

 

[judoman69]

now that is a big help theMelvster6 that is a BIG help!

 

[theMelvster6]

With ecmspy it makes it simple because it shows you the voltage right on the screen. Just gotta twist the throttle.

 

[ich]

http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s546/A40130213/EcmSpy/MegaLogViewer-TPS_Failure2_zpsbfac06d1.png

 

[07Bolt]

sounds more like a deterioration of hardware (sensor, wiring, injector, etc)

Check your regulator connections for corrosion, burning, arcing. Behind the cam cover. This is common in 03-07 xb's. The regulator connections were updated in 08.

 

[judoman69]

thanks to everyone who had suggestions and advise.
i have finally fixed the issue and the bike is running well.

 

[theMelvster6]

What ended up being the problem?

 

[judoman69]

the timing was bang on.
what had caused the bike to hit a wall was the throttle body air funnel was not installed all the day down and was contacting the top of the air box and stopping air flow. TOTALLY MY BAD LOL