First Track Day with the CityX

[mpaternoster]

Hi Guys,
Went to the track at New York Safety Track with my City X yesterday with my cousin and her husband. We had a little buell crew. I have had the bike for a year and this was the first time taking it to the track. Today we were going "downtown", or backwards. Most people don't like it, but I prefer this direction.


I normally run my bandit 1200 with a Dale Walker jet kit, pod filters, Hayabusa rear shock, jack up kit, racetech front springs, and rear sets. Ive made it into intermediate but had a lowside and hadn't been back in a year, so i chose novice initially.

If anyone is interested, here are my thoughts.

Bike:2005 Xb9sx
Mods:
Race kit
Low handlebars
Firebolt foot pegs
Right scoop
Dunlop Q3 tires
New front EBC HH pads



Power notes:
The bike has plenty of power getting through the turns, even after my intermediate bump, I could hang with most bikes until the straight, then they were gone. Figuring out the gears was tricky. My bandit has at 10K redline, so losing that 3k was tough in some spots until I figured out the track flow. I found my self at redline coming out of turns and needing to shift in areas I wasnt used to.



Handling notes:
The bike turns much faster than my bandit 1200, but was way less stable. Through quick turns I felt headshake nearly every transition. But while leaned over, it felt vary stable. Had no issues


I liked that I could get on the throttle earlier, well before I would dare on the bandit, though I would say this is more from gaining experience and feel than bike differences.

Braking:
The brakes were good, only noticed some brake fade in the afternoon sessions where I was pushing a bit. I still was not braking very hard through most turns though, I left a lot more out there in the braking area. towards the end of the day I started braking later and harder, just staring to get the back end wiggly.

Trail braking was much better than expected. I experienced hardly any standup in turns and had the brakes applied much deeper into some turns than I expected to be able to.


Comfort:
The riding position is not comfortable. I used the mid height seat with the regular firebolt pegs and was quite cramped. I have the tall seat, which I should have used, I took the cover off of it though which was a bad decision. I felt my toes going numb until I consciously moved my outside foot to use my heels instead of the balls of my feet for grip. I think some tank pads would have helped greatly with controlling the bike.


Suspension
Everything seemed well sorted nothing too soft or too hard. The zip tie on the fork has about 2 inches left before bottoming out. I used the guide I found online for more aggressive riding.

Tires wore evenly, they look good to me. Had the pressure at 30lbs cold and didnt touch them throughout the day.


Issues:
After the first warmup session the bike started to stall when idling. Ill admit I might have had my idle set too low, but I have never had an issue on the street.

I also started popping on decelleration, which I have also never had happen on the street.

Granted, I do not ride nearly this hard on the street so maybe that, plus the heat was causing issues?

I quickly checked my AFV which was 82.9%.

For all the sessions after that, it would start fine but I would need to continue revving to keep it running.

Didn't notice any issue with acceleration on the track though.

During the afternoon sessions, heavy braking into turn 1( turn 18 normally) I experienced a loss of power after the apex, then a quick lurch of power. I assume that was gas sloshing forward, up the tank on braking and essentially running out of gas, then settling back down to the fuel pick up. The gas light came on shortly after that.

No CELS the entire time though so not sure what the cause was for all of it.

I did fill up at a gas station I have never used though, could be a combination of a hotbike, higher elevation and bad gas?

I have never experienced these issues on the street



Future notes:
If I continue riding this bike at the track, I think some modifications would make the time more enjoyable.
Definitely a taller seat- I am working on this. Plan is to add some foam to the tall seat and recover it to mimic the look and shape of the mid seat, just taller.

further forward bars- I am using some amazon krator bars that are about 1 inch lower than stock. It was mostly ok, but I could have gotten my weight a bit more foward with some Clubmans or crossroads.

Pegs- The position of the pegs are good, but I would prefer them to be solid mounted and rougher for more grip. I only scraped the pegs a few times, but that can be remedied by better body position.


I'll be at NJMP on monday 9/10 for another track day with evolve gt. Assuming I can get this idle and fuel issue either resolved or more stable.

 

[Cooter]

Thanks for the notes on your track day, sounds like you had a ball!
I have some suggestions for you if you wish.

Suspension:
The "aggressive riding" suspension settings are just a starting point, this is where you now start to set them for your preference:up: 2" left of travel!? (Is a lot left). Or 2" left to the bottom casting of the front fork?

Tune:
"I quickly checked my AFV which was 82.9%"
Thats a problem, and lower than most stock AFV limit settings I've seen?? It's leaning out the whole map because it thinks its too rich. You'll need to find out why before the next track day or risk burning a piston.
Looks like you have a race muffler on it, so your tune shouldn't be stock. Popping on decel is a sign the engine is lean.

Steering:
Headshake is super scary on a transition. Not normal. The way you describe transition is wobbly but sets up in corners, sounds like the front tire has tread but is squared off. IMO 30psi cold is pretty low for a front.
Definitely loosen the triples and make SURE the steering bearings are good and pre-loaded correctly. All-Balls makes a tapered bearing kit to replace the stock ball bearings:eagerness:I've done this mod to my STT and LOVE it.
https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showt...eap-steering-damper&highlight=steering+damper

Brakes:
I would blue the rotor learning trail-braking (but still never got to brake fade) so I upgraded and was thoroughly astonished at the performance increase at the track level.
Get a ZTL-2 caliper ($150-ish with pads) LAP is on e-bay, a 19mm front M/C ($40-ish either stock '08-up Buell, or a radial m/c that fits the bars) and a good front rotor. Lunatic has some ^^^^ or EBR has a race rotor. I really thought the solid mounting kit made a big difference as well. EBR may say they are out of stock on line, but call them and ask.

Fuel:
You'll kill 3 gallons of gas much faster than you think. Absolutely bring more to keep 3/4 tank full. 91-92 octane race fuel is much better than 91-92 octane pump gas. It's not really a power issue, it's the fuel quality that will give your engine longevity on the track. and don't bother with 115 haha

Thanks so much for sharing your good day! I love to see them getting exercised at the track. They look good, they sound good, and it's where they're the happiest!

 

[mpaternoster]

Thanks for the tips guys.

I would say its a bout 1.5" left to the casting.

The headshake wasn't too bad, I admit once I realized how quickly the bike turned in, I started turning in as fast as I could to try to make up time through the S's. I checked the bearing before I went by lifting the front end and pulling on the forks and such. I didn't get any play. I'm not sure how to check the bearings properly, but I will give the service manual a read tonight.

So, the way to try to fix the AFV is going to be checking the intake seals? I had some issues when I first bought the bike last year, but I flashed the Race Map, reset the TPS, Idle and checked the battery connections and grounds. Since then I have had zero issues at all. Maybe just running it hard has caused some issues now?

I started it the other day and it stalled again. I adjusted the idle to ~1050 and it stays running and sounds normal. I will need to research when the AFV relearns to check if that has solved the issue. I apologize for not knowing this already as I have never had the issue, the bike has been flawless.

Might be a good excuse to take the new toy though:

 

[rchuff]

to fix your AFV you will need to go into the ecm and see what 02 sensor is reading that will tell you weather 02 is on it's way out or if fine.. Or check to make sure your intake seals are not leaking.

 

[wickedchop]

Looks like you guys had a boatload of fun at NYST. I'll be at NJMP on 9/23 and 10/20 and probably a ton in between. Be cool if you guys came down. They have stuck me in blue group the past four times out which I'm a little uncomfortable with but due to a low turnout of riders thats where I got stuck. Been running fairly consistent 36's at T-bolt and solid 22's on lightning. You guys are more than welcome to pit with us if you make those dates. I'm pretty well prepared with almost anything ya need. Just put this bucket of bolts together so look for it in the pits if ya come down. Or just PM me.

 

[John Vreede]

Agree with Cooter re tire pressures too low. Buell's steer quick anyway but low tire pressures make the bike turn in even faster.
I wanted a neutral steering bike and got it with new tires and 38fr/40r psi on my Uly. Any less pressure than that and the front flopped into the turn. I had to put pressure on the inside bar to hold it up.
Experiment with pumping them up. Go to 40f/42r to start with to give yourself that maximum difference from your normal setting, then reduce 2psi at a time until it feels right for you.
Worn tires cause too quick turn in too. My old tires had what I thought was acceptable wear and roundness of profile but I didn't get the steering I wanted until I put a new set of good brand sport tires on it - jv

 

[wickedchop]

30lbs cold in the front isn't way off by any means. Should've been a tad higher. I run 31 and a half to 32 in the front and 28 out back. I definitely would've checked them EVERY session at first call and either let air out of added air before pit out. He should not have left them alone all day!!!!!! Heading out at 30 and 30 was not by any means a disastrous decision at all on a Buell. He has been to the track before.... NEVER under any circumstances run anywhere near 40f and 42r on a racetrack!

 

[mpaternoster]

I had been reading that the 30f and r was a good starting point. I have used these pressures for a few years now and have no issues.

Here's a video of an afternoon session. Camera bike is an 1190sx

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...8&id=830314007

Tire wear was pretty much perfect.

I took the lightning out and the new sx to campare them and the popping on decel stopped after about a mile. AFV was also back up to 106%. All I did was adjust the idle back to 1050rpm.

I'll be at thunderbolt 9/10. I think that's all I'll be able to do this season though. I wish I could come down and get a tow around the track to learn the lines. I'm a little nervous to be in intermediate at a track I've never been to. Evolve gt sets your class and it stays with you wherever you go. I could always ask to move back to novice I suppose.

 

[Cooter]

Don't worry about your class so much. It has no bearing on your coolness or manliness. Just know the rules to know when people can pass you. If someone passing you in a turn distracts you stay in novice.

Honestly I'd stay in novice as long as they'll let you. Intermediate is called the Meat Grinder for a reason, and Advanced just doesn't want someone parking it in the corners. You sound like you know your stuff and are willing to listen to other opinions as well. You'll be fine:angel:

and making me jealous....:upset:

 

[wickedchop]

I would 100% ask evolvegt to let you warm up and acclimate in white group for the first sesh. I myself would do the same thing at an unfamiliar track, smart move and good thinking for sure man. Couple of tips, use the runoff curbing exiting turns one and two and six, you'll need it. Pit in and pit out is very user friendly. Turn 9 is a real mother F'er, it's weird! Be prepared, it's a SLOW right hander, come in setup wrong and to fast and you will be in the grass. Have fun man, it's an awesome track. Report back and let us know how it went

 

[user_deleted]

and meanwhile..............i'll be practicing assorted flips and aerial shenanigans on my new XR1200 in preparation for the upcoming AmishLand autumn fair season.

 

[njloco]

So, did you stick the landing ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ?

 

[Chicknstripn]

and meanwhile..............i'll be practicing assorted flips and aerial shenanigans on my new XR1200 in preparation for the upcoming AmishLand autumn fair season.

I thought the festival required you to ride your honda dream while sporting your Shriners attire?

 

[Dobe1]

Walter - I have heard these Lancaster PA rascals, Levi and Isaiah, will be attending this years AmishLand autumn fair. Specifically to see the infamous XR1200 blackflip:

 

[user_deleted]

the "Shriners" are heathens Carlos. we don't associate with them. way too colorful. and Stevie....where did you get that pic? they're my neighbors!
PS-the family says hello.

 

[34nineteen]

and meanwhile..............i'll be practicing assorted flips and aerial shenanigans on my new XR1200 in preparation for the upcoming AmishLand autumn fair season.

Seems legit. :applause:

 

[John Vreede]

Hope there’s still some life in this thread after the lighthearted stuff.

XB Buells are probably the most sensitive bikes ever made to tires and tire pressure. Stands to reason - ultra-short wheel base, high centre of gravity, steep rake, and short trail. Buell’s are at one end of the spectrum, as the Capt America’ and Billybike’s are at the other. Buells turn fast, choppers turn slow, that’s objective fact.

But when you ask “How fast is too fast?”, it all gets subjective. It depends on what you’re used to, what you’re comparing it with. Mpaternoster is comparing to his Bandit, Wickedchop to his track-prepped Buell and I compare to my Ducati. Both he and I are new to Buells, while Wickedchop presumably has had his a while and is used to the way it handles. If you’re not comfortable with the way it handles, you can’t ride it fast.

By way of illustration of sensitivity, I’ve only ridden 3 different XB’s: a 2002 9R, my 2007 Uly and a 2008 SS and all of them showed it:

I wanted to buy a 9R when they were just out and took a demo ride at the local dealer, but it steered weird. 3 weeks later the dealer told me they’d had word from the factory that the bike needed setting up for each rider and the tires were under-inflated when I rode it. By then I’d bought another bike.

The problems I had getting my Uly to handle like I wanted are documented here: https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?54246-Getting-a-Ulysses-to-handle-like-an-XB*R

I find the Uly a bit tall and heavy so looked for a Lightning Long, thinking I’d get a lower and lighter version of the Uly. The owner had run it on the Nordschleife of the Nurburgring and said it handled great. A test ride showed it turned in way too quick for me. I thought I knew how to fix that, so we pumped the tires. But, while that slowed it up, it still turned too quick for me. Presumably it needed new tires as well, even though they only had 8k on them and didn’t look badly worn. I didn’t buy it.

My point with starting at 40fr & 42r psi was to make the biggest change you could, that makes the bike to handle more like a Japper or Ducati, which might make mpaternoster feel more at home. Then start reducing pressure to get a compromise he could live with, not that you’d run that sort of pressure on the track.

The Bandit handles well in a typically big Japper way, my Ohlins equipped Ducati handles superbly (to me). Buells do too – but in a different way. It all depends on what you’re used to.

As far as handling is concerned, Buells all have first rate suspension components and a stiff frame, so no improvement needed there (so long as the steering head and swing-arm bearings are ok). But they are v.v sensitive to tire pressure and tire shape. If you’ve got issues with the way it handles, start there – jv.

 

[wickedchop]

Just for the record I don't track my Buell. Only did once and it wasn't for me. I track a fully prepped sv650, RC51, and gsxr 750. Nothing puts a smile on my face like my Buell on the street and nothing puts a smile on my face on the track like the old RC.