"FNG" XB12 owner w/?'s

[MtnRider]

Hey all,
First, thanx to everybody posting detailed and accurate info on these bikes. This forum is amazing. I've always wanted an XB and pulled the trigger on an '04 XB 12S with 9,100mi for $2k. The price was due to the bike not running right and I got the feeling the PO was just over it. One of my old buddies has the same identical bike, and had very similar issues with his in the past. He always took his to a dealer to fix, but I prefer to diy. I got to CO Springs to check it out and yes, it had some bad hesitation off the bottom, but it ran and I got it thru some gears & my gut said "go for it" I picked the POs brain about TPS resets, plugs, ecm changes.....anything he may have done. While I can't be certain, I don't think he was taking the right approach.
Upon getting the bike to my garage, I fired it up and wanted to ease it around a few back roads to see if the bike would adjust to my environment and "learn" anything up here- generally cold, dry and 10,000 ft above sea level. Well, damn, the XB decided it liked me and after a mellow 20 minute ride it's scooting around pretty good. Pretty good but not 100% means I've got some more work to do, but I didn't buy a blown engine at least I have loads of exp rebuilding motocross bikes, and a decent amount of tools, time, space & resources. I'm excited to figure this out.
Sooo.... ecm cable is on the way. Laptop ready for whichever tuning program is recommended & Now have the big shop manual. My plan is to reset the TPS, dive into ECMspy and learn as much about tuning that way as I can. I'd love to do a pipe, intake, breather reroute, and ebr race ecm, but I really just want to get as close to "decent stock running" as I can for a (long) while. I have the shop manual and plan on getting things back to stock, or as close as makes sense for my altitude. Now that I've yapped on long enough, I'll get to the point.
Issue: occasional hesitation/heavy stutter between 1.5k rpmish and 3k Rpm. Inconsistent under load & flat spot in that range. Revs through the RPM range much better when not under load. Bike pulls linear and healthy randomly, but slightly more often after reaching operating temps.
?'s:
1-Aside from the TPS reset, what would anyone suggest I add first to my chore list for this bike besides NGK 9's and an oil change?. 2-PO said ECMspy is only available in Russian language?! I have a hard time believing that but where can I get the program? If I need to pay for it that's fine if it's worth it to have. Or, is there a better tune prog? 3-would anyone recommend timing changes for altitude? Or should I just return it to stock? The PO, I believe, has it advanced all the way?! another thing that seems odd to me.
Sorry for the total noob post, and I understand most anything I need to know is in here somewhere, but I'm getting a little cross eyed. And even just a general nudge in the right direction could save me many hours
& definitely is greatly appreciated.
Thnx in advance!!

 

[Simplymichaeljr]

I would certainly check the condition of the plugs. That will be a start in diagnosing the air to fuel ratio. Clean all ground wires, check condition of plug wires. You can test the ignition coil with a meter. Open the air box and check the air filter. Replace paper filter with a high flow air filter or if you already have one, clean it. If you see the inner air box has a Swiss cheese mod or air box elimation mod, you may have a lean running bike (the color of your plugs, when you check them, will also give insight into a lean condition.) If you do have an altered inner air box and/or open exhaust, I suggest downloading a race map that has a richer fuel value. Do an intake leak test. Since you have the air box off, do a breather reroute (many threads/videos for this DIY.) This will keep the crankcase vapors from contaminating your air filter. You can ride it in "closed loop" parameters to "relearn," but I believe that year ecm isn't as adaptive as the later models. Ecmspy is available in English I ordered my cable and software from Ebay. Maps can be found on buellmods.com If I left something out it's because it's 12:30am and I just left my shop from installing a Barnett steel braided clutch cable on my 'bolt (adjusted the primary chain, primary clutch and cable, primary oil.) I'm considering a 200 mile ride by myself tomorrow to go catch up to a buddy who left today. So, I needed to get her ready. I think I got her dialed in. Clutch feels very responsive. PS-I hope you have some time set aside this weekend to get it running right so you can get on the road and carve the pavement :up: GL

 

[user_deleted]

I got to CO Springs to check it out and yes, it had some bad hesitation off the bottom, but it ran and I got it thru some gears & my gut said "go for it" I picked the POs brain about TPS resets, plugs, ecm changes.....anything he may have done. While I can't be certain, I don't think he was taking the right approach.
Upon getting the bike to my garage, I fired it up and wanted to ease it around a few back roads to see if the bike would adjust to my environment and "learn" anything up here- generally cold, dry and 10,000 ft above sea level. Well, damn, the XB decided it liked me and after a mellow 20 minute ride it's scooting around pretty good.

bike purchased from an area in the 5500-6000ft. elevation area.....correct? now being ridden in the 10,000ft. plus elevation area.....correct? and now performs noticeably better at this altitude than the former altitude....but still glitchy with "leanness" characteristics and poor throttle response @ lower rpm's.....correct? classic faulty O2 sensor with no stored fault code. replace it. will walk you thru if required. inexpensive component and fairly easily replaced with common hand tools.

 

[Cooter]

+1 on an old lazy O2 sensor.
"tuning" a fuel injection system for altitude is unnecessary.
"Tuning" you fuel injection system won't fix a problem. Possibly mask one, but not fix it.
If you are planning on an upgrade to the intake and exhaust system there are plenty of existing fuel injection programs available for free from Buellmods.com and Buelltooth.com, so still no "tuning" needed.
FYI I much prefer ECMDroid (free) and a Bluetooth dongle connection ($50-ish) to download injection programs for anyone who doesn't need custom injection tuning, which is easily 98% of us.

Edit: I just re-read the PO has the timing advanced all the way? Step +1, put it back to stock. Even though it will probably run worse, put it back to stock. Fix this bike before you ride it a bunch.

 

[Phelan]

I live just outside CO Springs and was right behind you on this bike of you didn't buy it. If you live in the area hmu and we can meet up and I can help you troubleshoot it. I thonk it has a bad cam sensor personally.

 

[MtnRider]

Sweet,
Thanx for the tips. @Simply, yep, going thru the grounds and plugs/wires is a good idea and should be on my list for routine reasons. I suspect getting an eye on the plug color might possibly provide some answers. Air box mod is something else that needs looking into. Big thnx for replying on the graveyard shift!
Lunatic, that's a great idea! Thnx, I wouldn't even thought about the O2 sensor. I'm so hung up on everything I'm reading about TPS's and ECM I kinda had blinders on.
@Cooter, I suspect your right about Blind Tuning not being a good idea, & may only mask the prob. Good point. & I will set timing back to stock ASAP like you said. I'll look into ECMdroid. You're right, Yeah, the bike is stored in a heated garage and isn't going to be ridden much till it's fixed.
@Phelan I'm up in Leadville, waaaay up in the mountains. Thnx for the offer to help! I may have the only Buell in this county, lol.
Thanx all for the advice and pointers. Def appreciate ya's! I'll post any developments and hopefully have some progress soon! You folks rock! Thnx!

 

[neilrl79]

Jon aka Lunaticfringe, is one of the most knowledgeable Buell guys I have had the pleasure to meet, I would take any advice he offers and run with it.

 

[user_deleted]

Jon aka Lunaticfringe, is one of the most knowledgeable Buell guys I have had the pleasure to meet, I would take any advice he offers and run with it.

greatly appreciate the kind words neil. thanks very much for that my friend.

 

[MtnRider]

O2 sensor ordered, ecm cable shud arrive tomorrow & ECMspy (in English running on laptop. Setting timing back to stock looks to be easy enough. Wonder if the weather will hold much longer up here? I reckon as soon as the bike is runnin right, it's gonna start dumping snow, haha JK!

 

[MtnRider]

Is this an acceptable method to set my timing back? I've seen other more thorough methods, but was wondering if this way looks ok to try?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHmh1JoT2U

 

[Chicknstripn]

www.buellmods.com
Download a manual and try the method the manufacturer recommends.
Do you have ECMspy?
The method in the YouTube post you linked is very close to the method in the manual. However, it is possible to have the timing mark on the flywheel show when the cylinder is not at top dead center. To avoid this; remove the front spark plug and use a long straw or something similar to measure the distance from the top of the piston to the top of the spark plug hole. The shortest distance, with timing mark centered, is garunteed to be TDC. The proceed with adjustment.
Good luck

 

[Chicknstripn]

BTW I just noticed that you do have a manual and you do have spy.
Sorry I didn't read ahead.
Let us know what the results are of your timing adjustment.
I'm curiously concerned about what ails your bike.

You have any idea WHY the previous owner messed with the timing? Sounds like the PO wasn't all the versed in the way of the Buell.

 

[lowkey]

Is this an acceptable method to set my timing back? I've seen other more thorough methods, but was wondering if this way looks ok to try?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHmh1JoT2U

In all the years on this forum and all the various threads, this is the first time I've heard of adjusting timing on these bikes before... interested to hear more as well. Good luck on getting the bike dialed in MtnRider.

 

[MtnRider]

Thnx for the tips. I reckon your right about the PO.
I've put the new O2 sensor in & got the TPS reset. Have all the breather reroute parts except the inline breather, which is ordered. New NGK plugs to put in. I figure I'll have time to finish these chores in the next few (altho life with a 1 yr old doesn't always go to sched) days or fortnight. After doing the timing proper, plugs, O2 sensor, Breather rerun & TPS I'll fire her up and see how she's runnin. If that doesn't cure the sputter, then I'll (panic) move on to the next possible solutions.

 

[Gloomshadow]

I got to CO Springs to check it out and yes, it had some bad hesitation off the bottom, but it ran and I got it thru some gears & my gut said "go for it" I picked the POs brain about TPS resets, plugs, ecm changes.....anything he may have done. While I can't be certain, I don't think he was taking the right approach.
Upon getting the bike to my garage, I fired it up and wanted to ease it around a few back roads to see if the bike would adjust to my environment and "learn" anything up here- generally cold, dry and 10,000 ft above sea level. Well, damn, the XB decided it liked me and after a mellow 20 minute ride it's scooting around pretty good.

bike purchased from an area in the 5500-6000ft. elevation area.....correct? now being ridden in the 10,000ft. plus elevation area.....correct? and now performs noticeably better at this altitude than the former altitude....but still glitchy with "leanness" characteristics and poor throttle response @ lower rpm's.....correct? classic faulty O2 sensor with no stored fault code. replace it. will walk you thru if required. inexpensive component and fairly easily replaced with common hand tools.

yep! classic o2.. jumped right out at me... cheap fix

 

[MtnRider]

Ok,
I've done the Timing per manual, new O2 sensor, new NGK iridiums, breather rerouted, TPS reset.
Still getting stumbling/hesitation at 3k RPM. I can only run it up to temp in the garage, the roads are and will be buried in snow till March/April. So symptoms are under no load, gentle free rev.
My next ideas are new James intake seals?
http://badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/671359.html?1334644589
Any thoughts?

 

[Chicknstripn]

Test the intake seals first.
If there's no rise or fall in the idle during the test then wait until you're able to actually ride. Letting the bike idle and revving it while under no load is probably not the best way to trouble shoot a running issue.
I think you've done all you can for now.
On road behavior might be much better than the static garage running you're dealing with.

 

[neilrl79]

Test the intake seals first.
If there's no rise or fall in the idle during the test then wait until you're able to actually ride. Letting the bike idle and revving it while under no load is probably not the best way to trouble shoot a running issue.
I think you've done all you can for now.
On road behavior might be much better than the static garage running you're dealing with.

I agree.

 

[Jason]

I had almost word for word the same story as you, bought bike good price running like you described, low mileage, engine sounded tight i was sure i could get it to run right, and the PO wasn't sure about much... Here's my video of timing adjust, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2epTWjP5rfg which seems to have fixed my issue entirely. However it is Feb in Montreal and I've only had the chance to take it around a couple blocks. I won't know till spring if other adjustments are needed but this timing going from all the way advanced ( which I knew was crazy as soon as I saw it there) to the proper stock timing has fixed all or most of the problem. After setting your timing right you should go on some rides through all the gears and stay around the 3k rpm range for the ecm to relearn. If it is not cured after that yes the intake gaskets would be the next suspect for me. Also after reading this thread I too will consider weather I should change my O2 sensor. keep us posted as I am interested in the conclusion to your somewhat parallel problem.

 

[MtnRider]

Spring is sprunging (?) early here at 10,200 ft above sea level. Got past the ice rink driveway to dry open road and finally took er out for an open road ride.
NOT SO GOOOOD! Heh heh....
Initially the XB12 rode much improved. New O2 sensor, Iridiums, TPS reset, Timing set & breather mod done during the winter down time. Still had some hesitation and stumbling at varied RPMs on the . Pretty random. Once I got on Hwy 24 between Leadville & Granite, the XB cruised nice between 80 & 100 (don't tell my wife!) but I stayed mostly at 60-70. Sadly, after about ten miles, I gave her a slow full throttle twist & the check engine light came on and lost 90% of power into 100% of power. As I coasted I pulled the clutch and let it die, still rolling. Dropped to second & gave her a gentle bump start before slowing down too much. She started right up, no check engine light and seemed to run fine. Turned around, headed home, stumbling/stutter returned after a few miles. Spent a few miles near home & I goosed it around town to try to pinpoint behavior & symptoms. Had a frustration stop for a quick bite and 1 beer, real hard startup after and went home.

At this point, my thoughts are:
-Intake seals need testing/replaced
-TPS reset not done while bike was warm & not correct?
-TPS bad all together
-Electrical bug/worn wire housing (dear lord please no)

I'm gonna keep chugging away at this puppy. I haven't even gotten a chance to ride this bike running properly, and I ****ing love the XB. Not giving up, but getting frustrated. I wanna ride the thing so damned bad I'm half tempted to buy another just to get my jollies while I figure this one out!
One ? I'd like to ask the group, tho, does anyone know of some Buell savvy repair shops or guru's in the central Rockies or Denver/front range area of Colorado?