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[strmvt]

Hey guys
I had a customer call me yesterday about his '06 chrysler minivan motor is 3.8l v6 with 40k miles not having any oil in it knocking really loud and loss of power. we had changed the oil 2.7k miles ago He puts oil in it gets it to my shop I pull out the dipstick it has a cpl pieces of what looks and feels like black colored gasket material the oil is gummy/gooey no evidence in color of antifreeze in the oil nor oil in the radiator no evidence of oil being burnt as the tail pipe was carbon and oil residue free no evidence of leaks except some seepage along the rear headgasket no other leaks evident. Customer stated he heard a slight knocking noise and assumed it was a cv shaft did not give a time frame and this past month it started experiencing hard starting as in slow/hard to turnover to which he assumed battery issues. I am assuming the rear head gasket has a leak small enough for the oil to leak and get burnt yet not big enough to present and smoke evidence just my .02. Called today to say dealer assumes there was not enough or no oil at all when we changed the oil to which I reply ok you drove the van for 2.7k miles. I'm of the mind if we didnt put any or not enough oil it wouildnt have lasted 2.7k miles. what do you guys think?

 

[mikeb2275]

sounds like burning oil have you tried to pressurize the cylinders and listen for air at the oil fill or intake

 

[black_xb12r]

never would have lasted... symptoms point to a head gasket... but im not a certified mechanic... just a gear head and hot rod builder..

 

[strmvt]

sounds like burning oil have you tried to pressurize the cylinders and listen for air at the oil fill or intake

We're just a quick change lube shop don't have access to tools like that in the shop.

symptoms point to a head gasket

I agree but... dont have access to the van to pull the suspected head off and check.

 

[mikeb2275]

if u know a shop you can trust have them check it out, do you paint mark the drain plug

 

[GatorBuell]

You could get a compression tester, there cheep. Do a compression test so you can rule out piston rings.

 

[chrispudd]

You changed the oil and customer put 2700 miles on it before noise happened? There was obviously oil in it when it left your shop. Oil must have went somewhere.. Those 3.8 s are pretty decent engines.

 

[chrispudd]

I'm a licensed tech, so any other car stuff I'll try to help. You guys always help me so much with buell stuff..

 

[konarider94]

I agree you need to do a leak down test or compression test on the cylinders. but if you put no oil in at all the engine would have not gone 2700 miles.

 

[Hammel13]

This isn't adding up theres no way it made 2700 miles. sounds like there trying to cover something they might have done by blaming you

 

[Warlock]

I worked at a lube shop through highschool and if there was problem you knew it immediatly. Theres no way it would have lasted 2700 miles. Its not your fault and not your problem.

 

[chrispudd]

if there s a powertrain fault, the PCM goes into "limp-in" mode. Trans stays in second gear only. Just so it can be driven to a shop. If it was in limp in mode ,and the customer kept driving it, it would ruin the big ends of the connecting rods. And do tons of other damage. Try driving it or scan it to see if that's the case. If so, then there s your knocking and oil problem.

 

[tuneport67ss]

No oil will most likely NOT make it 2700 miles. Low oil WILL most likely make it 2700 miles. The thing that gets me though is the fact that you say the oil was gummy. I think this is the issue. We need to figure out why the oil got gummy. I know it is hard to tell after the fact, but I'm leaning towards the motor running hot and burning up the oil. The motor running hot will cause the internals to swell and try to seize. Thus resulting in the knocking sound. I have seen these symptoms first hand in an over heated engine. And no the heads will not nessecarily warp either. I had one of my motors do this exact same thing with out warping the heads or block. Burnt the oil up and broke it down and spun damn near every bearing in the block. This is what "run till failure gets you."

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[strmvt]

Thanks guys for all the opinions and ideas my boss is like not our problem as the customer stated he heard the knocking noise didnt say when it started or how long it was happening obviously didnt check the oil level the van ran for w.uk after we changed the oil its not our problem my boss is from Lebadon so he speaks good broken english so I get to be the middle man yay me so basically the customr will prolly do some legal action against the shop. I spoke to a few folks I know in the mechanic field and they say valves valve seal or even head gasket let enough oil thru to get burnt and the catalytic converter did its job and cleaned up the exhaust there by leaving no oily residue or carbon in the tail pipe.

 

[Sleez]

my guess would be valve seal, then as the oil started burning away, the heat became greater, causing the "gumminess" mentioned, vicious cycle!

 

[anrkizm95]

there are tsb for cam sensor leaking and it looks like headgasket.dosnt really matter now with the internal problems.cant see how it should come back on your shop unless vechicle had massive oil leak and tech didnt note it on work order.