Gear Lube - Anyone not just Bolt owners

[08herobolt]

Hey folks,

I was reading some articles on the Twin Motorcycles website and I came across an interesting recommendation. They mentioned using Redline D4 in the trans. That's an ATF and I was wondering if anyone uses it and what the results are. For what it's worth, I'm currently using Royal Purple Gear Oil.

Thanks,
JP

 

[user_deleted]

JP: i think board member go_cytocis is a proponent of atf fluid and has good luck with it. modern lubricants are amazing and if you consider the fact that atf works in an application with friction clutch plates, whirring gears and bearings, and considerable high temps then i don't know why it wouldn't work fine in a buell primary. on a personal note i've tried about every type of primary fluid, trans fluid, 20-50 synthetic.....you name it. and still this day i find that a buell XB trans and clutch pack works the smoothest, shifts the smoothest, and has the least amount of "bang" going into 1st from neutral with Amsoil 20-50 cycle oil. but that's just me.

 

[08herobolt]

Thanks Lunatic. I was previosly ran Amsoil. I had no reason for leaving them, I just tried something different.

 

[konarider94]

http://www.maximausa.com/product/mtl-transclutch-fluid/

I've been running this. It's made for motorcycle transmissions that share lubrication with the clutch. It carries the jaso ma rating. I've used gear oil as well as many brands of 20w50 and the HD primary and trans stuff.

Gear oil lubes the trans real well but doesn't necessarily meet the clutch specifications. Also many of them are now corrosive to yellow metals. IIRC royal purple was rated one of the worst for corrosion in amsoil's white paper where they tested a bunch of brands.

 

[user_deleted]

my pleasure 08. kona.....that is virtually the same as bel-ray gearsaver #80. maxima makes excellent cycle specific products. i have used the maxima along with bel-ray and motul in XB primaries. they are fine.

 

[konarider94]

yea bel-ray and motul are great companies as well. The maxima is easy for me to get locally so that's the only reason I chose that specific brand.

http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/brochures/g2457_gearlube_study.pdf
This is the study I was talking about for the gear oils. The copper corrosion of a few of them(royal purple included) really worried me.

 

[go cytocis]

i think board member go_cytocis is a proponent of atf fluid

Correct!

In my quest to become self-sufficient of HD parts & service, I did quite a bit of research into substitutes for the Formula+ recommended in the service manual. An HD service tech buddy of mine advised me it is essentially gear lube, & that's what he ran in his own Harley.

I also encountered the concern that gear lube may be corrosive to yellow metals like the copper coils of our stator & bronze shifting mechanisms. After more research, I concluded that this corrosive property of gear lube is specific to 'GL5' formula for extreme pressure applications due to the additional sulfur content (it really does smell quite strongly of sulfur).

GL4 & less are meant to be compatible with yellow metals due to their lesser sulfur content. That's a moot point however because GL5 is pretty much all you can find any more anyhow. Having said that, GL5 is supposedly also now fortified with corrosion inhibitors so it's actually now compatible with yellow metals.

I am no petroleum or metallurgical engineer so take everything above with a grain of salt; it's just what I came to understand from my own research.

I began running ATF exclusively once I went to Barnett clutch & the munufacturer specifically advised against Formula+ & recommended ATF. I followed those instructions & never encountered an issue as a result. In fact, I noticed marginally improved shifting & elimination of 'cold clunk'.

As lunatic points out above, there's really nothing in our primaries that doesn't also exist in an autobox.

 

[konarider94]

If I had to choose between atf or a motorcycle specific trans/clutch oil Id go with the motorcycle oil. I may have a somewhat biased opinion because I have destroyed an output bearing that took out the whole gear set in the trans.

Thanks for sharing that note from Barnett. Very interesting they don't like the formula+.

 

[go cytocis]

This is the study I was talking about for the gear oils

Interesting! In skimming over the highlights, it looks to me like MT1 spec gear lube is specifically formulated safe for yellow metals. If I were to go back to gear lube in my primary, I'd be looking for that MT1 designation on my selection.

Of the regular old dino lubes tested in that study, Valvoline would probably be the one I'd go with as it's only one with MT1 designation (as is Amsoil Severe Gear).

Because of the tendency of the XB primary case to easily become water-contaminated, I prefer a schedule of frequent changes of inexpensive (but suitable) fluids to a schedule of infrequent expensive fluids...

 

[08herobolt]

Thanks guys. Good points. I'm not sure this will help with my decision making because I think I'm overloaded. I did decide to stop using the Royal Purple Gear Lube. I'll finish out the season here in Michigan and make a decision in the spring after the engine tear down and new clutch pack.

Thanks Again!

JP

 

[theMelvster6]

Anybody try Bel-Ray Sport Transmission Fluid? I'm thinking of trying it out since XB primaries/transmissions are basically the same in operation.

Sport Transmission Fluid has been developed for the unique demands of Sportster V-Twin motorcycle transmissions equipped with wet clutches. Bel-Ray® Sports Transmission Fluid flows freely for better clutch cooling and provides positive clutch engagement for better starts and longer clutch life while protecting highly-loaded gears from wear, ensuring smooth shifts for more positive action.

 

[konarider94]

Bet its good stuff. Product data sheet says its 85W gear oil. Prob not much different that the other belray gear saver oil, or maxima mtl.

klotz makes something too. Their R50 2 stroke oil smells so good.
https://www.klotzlube.com/techsheet.asp?ID=43

 

[user_deleted]

melvster/kona: what belray is calling their "sport" trans fluid is a heavier version of bel-ray gearsaver #80. bel-ray products are excellent.local bel-ray distributor here says this new trans fluid has some specifics in the additive package to handle high temps a tad better than gear-saver fluid. they mentioned cooling. keep in mind that wet clutches need the oil for cooling the clutch pack......NOT for any sort of specific lubrication requirements. though i'm partial to amsoil 20-50 cycle oil in the primary this bel-ray product looks excellent if it's price-competitive.

 

[go cytocis]

Anybody try Bel-Ray Sport Transmission Fluid?

Interesting. The website shows that it's API JASO certified which is all you really need to know about its compatibility with wet clutches, but, it's also GL-5 certified, meaning it's got the EP sulfur additive which is corrosive to the yellow metals found in our XB primaries (unless of course it's also fortified with corrosion inhibitors, but the website does not mention this).

I'd have some concerns about using the Bel-Ray for this reason.

 

[theMelvster6]

Doesn't the Evo Sporty primaries have a similar charging system and transmission...also would have yellow metals? This is specifically for the sportsters...

 

[go cytocis]

Doesn't the Evo Sporty primaries have a similar charging system and transmission...also would have yellow metals? This is specifically for the sportsters...

I believe so, yes. But unless HD specifically recommends the use of Bel Ray in their Sporties, who knows if the corrosive issue has been addressed by Bel Ray (one would assume so, but it's not clear from the labeling).

Unfortunately HD Formula+, the only recommended lube in our primaries, does not carry any API certification so it's really challenging to know what's in it, and what cross-references with it. [mad]