British telecom broadband is sh1te!! right now to catch up and sorry if i miss anything out, firstly thank you everyone you are all pretty darn amazing! Buelly thats a brilliant idea i could do that i reckon thanks!... John (lunatic) you have us "crumpet munchers" sussed lol i do in fact have an 8ft x 10ft shed with low apex roof and there is only one medium strength cross member with an open area of about 18 inches so buelly`s suggestion would work and i like your suggestion of the tie downs in the "X" shape (see i wouldnt have thought of that) but they would have to be set inboard of the bar ends by about the amount you said to do outboard but it would still work and be safe, i would fit them sitting on the bike then get off and fit the stand! thanks!... cooter thats a good idea too but the big yellow stripe down my back may stop me trying that! lol good luck with your attempt though! thanks! and... John (mrlogix) i love the way you think, your ideas are always "outside the box" (thats a complement by the way!) and again i wouldnt have thought of that and yep that could work i reckon, the only concern i may have is the pushing down with or balancing on my bad leg, the knee is barely hanging in there and could pop out at anytime now i know you cant spend your life saying "what if" but when it goes then knee joint fusion is the only option as its been rebuilt a couple of times! Sorry if i sound a wimp or negative in any way and it may be easy to push the stand down so i will get those photos/measurements tomorrow if thats ok? You chaps are the Best!! :up: :up: