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jardine mid pipe
- Thread starter phil190
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Replied. I have a complete unit ready to go, polished, etc. I can also do just the down pipe if needed.
polished magnaflow
anrkizm95 - thx for the referral.
polished magnaflow
anrkizm95 - thx for the referral.
They're not impossible to make, just a pain to get it exactly right. And it's bent, cut and then welded.
thumpin1203
Well-known member
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- Nov 19, 2010
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- 561
Thats about the right $$ for a "hand crafted piece" shipped to your door, IMHO. Of course you could always try jardine, but good luck even getting them to answer an e-mail question, answer their phone or reply instantly on a forum.. (I gave up on that crap-house loooong ago)
thumpin1203
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
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- 561
Yep, gotcha.. you are certainly entitled to your opinion.. & let us all know if they will custom size the elbow o/d to fit a magnaflow for free.. also, ask them what gauge stainless they use.. I'm curious, because the last one I held in my hand felt as sturdy as coke can.. Oh, wait, theres a complete jardine system on ebay for 100.. better grab it.. oh, nevermind, it looks like theres 50 or so.. no worries. Sorry, just MY opinion..
If you were curious, I make mine from 16 gauge stainless. The tab is 11 gauge (1/8" thick) stainless. Probably overkill, but I don't like seeing stuff I make get broken.
thumpin1203
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- Nov 19, 2010
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Hey there, Dean.. yeah, from all I've seen, your work shines through in the overkill/lifetime dept. ... no cheap "fusion welds".. just good ol' tough "american craftsman" beads & materials.. keep chargin' tiger, they'll be "carbon dating" your stuff someday.. (a fella's lucky to get 6 months out of those "j" pipes).
Thump
Thump
bobaganoosh
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you can buy the piece from jardine thats how i got mine. I bought a used jardine off ebay and it didn't come with the elbow so i had to order it. it was like 90 bucks and it works perfect with the magnaflaw 11148 muffler because thats what i have now
http://www.buellxb.com/Buell-XB-For...Buell-aftermarket-parts/New-magnaflow-exhaust
http://www.buellxb.com/Buell-XB-For...Buell-aftermarket-parts/New-magnaflow-exhaust
bobaganoosh
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- Apr 17, 2010
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- 808
o yea and i have had my "j" pipe for almost 3 years now and its been strong enough
I got the elbow from Jardine earlier this spring. I just sent them an email and they got back to me in a fair amount of time. If I remember right it was $95 for the elbow. About $115 to my door I think. d_adams your piece looks great and if I had the money I would have gotten one like that, but I'm a poor college student.
I guess the big difference between what jardine does and mine is, their pipe is thinner gauge, they mass produce them and they've got all the equipment to do 100+ at a time. I use heavier stuff and do them one at a time by hand. Yes, I have a jig set up to make it easier to replicate it now, just like the stuff I do for the 1125's.
I have to buy pre-bent tubing and cut it to fit, I don't have a mandrel bender in house yet. The dies for them run about $500 each, so for the tubing I do, I'd need to spend several thousand just getting it set up, then there's the learning curve to bending the tubing. I'm fairly certain they've got a CNC mandrel bender with a dedicated operator that only does that one job of bending tubing. Even if I do get one, it will be a manual unit, I don't have the $100k to drop on a piece of equipment like that.
Once you have it bent, then you still have to cut it to fit what you need. That takes time. I guess I probably burn 10-15 minutes cutting tubing for this particular part. Lay it out, mark it, cut it, debur it and general cleanup. From there, it's got to be fitted up to the jig and partially sealed for back gassing. Tack it together, then add the gas to finish welding. Add on the tab for the front motor mount. Cut slits to compress the collector to the header pipe. Once that's all done, it needs to be cleaned (wire wheel) and possibly polished. All told, I guess I spend about 2+ hours making one part. I'll spend another hour or a little more reworking the muffler if it's a magnaflow. New collector up front, remove all the crap inside (wire feed wires all over in the last few I did, plus clean up the split in the pipe inside) and then add outlets, whatever you order. If it's one of my custom pipes, I'll spend at least 2-3 hours building the internals, packing it and welding the shell closed. I'm not the fastest guy around, but I'm pretty sure when mine are done, they won't break very easily.
I've had this discussion/argument before with other fabricators. Yeah, we can both do the job and make it look good, but at the end of the day, what's YOUR time worth to have it done right? One guy told me "$25 an hour and I'm happy to get it", so I guess it depends on where you live and what you'd work for. I normally charge about $60/hour for this type of work. I also do computer repairs, I charge even more for that. Why do I charge less for welding? One, because I LIKE it and two, it's because it's for a Buell. Don't matter what year/make/model. I just plain LIKE doing this. In all honesty, I could probably go full time with this and walk away from my union job. I can make plenty of $$ doing this, but I don't want it to turn into a "job" like what I do at work.
Look at the other end of the spectrum if you like. What would (Kevin) Drummer charge for the same part? Based on their stainless XB model at $650 or so and KNOWING what's inside the can, I'd say mine's probably a little less expensive than what they would charge. Look at their 1125 pipe. $980 + shipping. Mine isn't exactly the same, but puts MORE hp to the ground for less $$ at only $600 for a single outlet design. Mine, you don't pay for the name, just the performance and my time. I value mine more than most but less than some.
There's a lot more work involved in making exhaust systems than I had thought when I first started doing this. I knew all the theory (well, most of it) and I had ideas on how I wanted to do stuff. Oddly enough, it worked. EVERY time. Not just once, but EVERY pipe I've made has produced more hp than stock. The only exception was the original modification of the stock 1125 exhaust, but that wasn't my design. That one was just to uncork the sound a little.
I have to buy pre-bent tubing and cut it to fit, I don't have a mandrel bender in house yet. The dies for them run about $500 each, so for the tubing I do, I'd need to spend several thousand just getting it set up, then there's the learning curve to bending the tubing. I'm fairly certain they've got a CNC mandrel bender with a dedicated operator that only does that one job of bending tubing. Even if I do get one, it will be a manual unit, I don't have the $100k to drop on a piece of equipment like that.
Once you have it bent, then you still have to cut it to fit what you need. That takes time. I guess I probably burn 10-15 minutes cutting tubing for this particular part. Lay it out, mark it, cut it, debur it and general cleanup. From there, it's got to be fitted up to the jig and partially sealed for back gassing. Tack it together, then add the gas to finish welding. Add on the tab for the front motor mount. Cut slits to compress the collector to the header pipe. Once that's all done, it needs to be cleaned (wire wheel) and possibly polished. All told, I guess I spend about 2+ hours making one part. I'll spend another hour or a little more reworking the muffler if it's a magnaflow. New collector up front, remove all the crap inside (wire feed wires all over in the last few I did, plus clean up the split in the pipe inside) and then add outlets, whatever you order. If it's one of my custom pipes, I'll spend at least 2-3 hours building the internals, packing it and welding the shell closed. I'm not the fastest guy around, but I'm pretty sure when mine are done, they won't break very easily.
I've had this discussion/argument before with other fabricators. Yeah, we can both do the job and make it look good, but at the end of the day, what's YOUR time worth to have it done right? One guy told me "$25 an hour and I'm happy to get it", so I guess it depends on where you live and what you'd work for. I normally charge about $60/hour for this type of work. I also do computer repairs, I charge even more for that. Why do I charge less for welding? One, because I LIKE it and two, it's because it's for a Buell. Don't matter what year/make/model. I just plain LIKE doing this. In all honesty, I could probably go full time with this and walk away from my union job. I can make plenty of $$ doing this, but I don't want it to turn into a "job" like what I do at work.
Look at the other end of the spectrum if you like. What would (Kevin) Drummer charge for the same part? Based on their stainless XB model at $650 or so and KNOWING what's inside the can, I'd say mine's probably a little less expensive than what they would charge. Look at their 1125 pipe. $980 + shipping. Mine isn't exactly the same, but puts MORE hp to the ground for less $$ at only $600 for a single outlet design. Mine, you don't pay for the name, just the performance and my time. I value mine more than most but less than some.
There's a lot more work involved in making exhaust systems than I had thought when I first started doing this. I knew all the theory (well, most of it) and I had ideas on how I wanted to do stuff. Oddly enough, it worked. EVERY time. Not just once, but EVERY pipe I've made has produced more hp than stock. The only exception was the original modification of the stock 1125 exhaust, but that wasn't my design. That one was just to uncork the sound a little.
hey thumpin, no need to be an asshole, im just a college student that would rather spend less money on a muffler and save for important things like food and books. im sorry if you don't have the same opinion as me but you know what? if you dont like it dont post in a thread i made trying to find someone to sell me a "j" pipe. and the outlet on the jardine "j" pipe fits perfectly in the 11148 universal muffler, and as i said before no offense to dean, cause his pipe looks like the sturdiest piece of work ive seen yet. but i cant spend 225 on 1 part of an exhaust when i can buy the whole thing for $30-$40 more, especially when im taking summer classes and books cost $200-$300 each.
P.S. im sure dean knows people are going to say its too expensive, its part of every business. no need to get offended thumpin.
P.S. im sure dean knows people are going to say its too expensive, its part of every business. no need to get offended thumpin.
thumpin1203
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
- Messages
- 561
I got ya' Phil..your point is taken and understood very well. it's just that, I, for one, welcome guys like Dean.. good ol' down & dirty, grass roots american innovators with drive, willing to invest, constantly evolving and producing cool products for our Buells one at a time.. Sure, any guy can buy mass produced cookie cutter stuff at bargain prices.. If thats your budget, so be it. I know first hand how much it costs to pioneer and produce things one at a time.. it's staggering in this day & age.. you add everything up at the end of the day & the profit margins aren't all they should be.. I'm sure you can see where I am going with this. There are lots of jardine pipes out there & lots of peeps perfecly happy with them.. I'm just not a fan. At least you are or were entertaining a magnaflow.. thats a better direction in my eyes. Good luck in your quest, I'm sure you will make something work.
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