I had Hot Sauce, my 2004 Lightning torn apart for some head work this fall. Putting her back together, all done, cant connect neg battery terminal, short. Any obvious hints welcome, the neg ground cable bolt left side was broken off, redrilled and tapped, but not on the ground source side, I think. At any rate I cant connect the battery to blow the cylinder out after the headwork, and replace the sparkplug until I can reconnect the neg terminal. Help? Checked grounds except on the triple, is that the possible source? Also, previous owner had push button starter added, and I had trouble tightening the cable, but got that in place, Id like to think that not the source, but wtf is that small wire connecter underneath it for? there is a burnt up taped up wire hanging, that was never connected before, small gauge but traces back to neg battery in the harness near as I can tell. Id like to remove the push button but not sure I can now, its replacing the starter cover on rh side. Suggestions welcome.
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Lightning short gremlin
- Thread starter COOPSTER
- Start date
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34nineteen
Well-known member
Complete thoughts in the form of a cohesive sentence works for starters.
When you say “short” are you referring to the cable being too short in length?
Or are you talking about an electrical short?
I’m not even going to go into the whole blow out of the cylinder bit.
When you say “short” are you referring to the cable being too short in length?
Or are you talking about an electrical short?
I’m not even going to go into the whole blow out of the cylinder bit.
Cooter
Well-known member
Oh. My. God.
34nineteen
Well-known member
Someone once told me “your answer can only be good as the question you ask”.
Cooter
Well-known member
Well then:
Gobbiltygook. That's your answer. Gobbiltygook.
Gobbiltygook. That's your answer. Gobbiltygook.
Id like to think it would be obvious how to fix a wire being too short without asking for help. The neg terminal arcs and heats up if I try to connect the battery. I was told to leave the spark plug out and turn the bike over by the machine shop that did the head work, fyi.
Cooter
Well-known member
Agreed. Post pics.
Holy ****, stop doing that. Even if it's the wrong battery and you are hooking up backwards without looking at the big (+) and (-) labels, it still won't arc and heat up! The fan will run and it won't start but it won't arc and heat up!
Why? What "head work" was done? This is not meant t be a slam... but if you assembled the bike yourself, and can't figure out a battery, I am frightened to what else could be wrong. i.e. the intake and exhaust pushrods are different lengths but such a small difference you'd have to know, otherwise catastrophic damage could be done, same with tightening the head bolts too quickly, and about 1000 other things.
34nineteen
Well-known member
Oh, you are ok. After reading your first posting I thought you had a stroke.
Ok, now that you actually told us it’s an electrical short, which fuse is blowing? You’d think that would be an obvious part to note in your description of what was happening, but I guess not. Thank goodness you told us the name you gave your bike. That really helped to narrow it down. I’m glad you told us.
When the shop told you to leave the spark plug out and turn it over, it likely wasn’t to “blow out the cylinder”. They probably meant to turn the engine over by hand with the spark plug out so you can make sure the engine rotates over smoothly by hand (not by starter motor) so your not fighting compression.
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Cooter
Well-known member
The saga of Ol' Hot Sauce is just getting interesting. I'm willing to help, but I can smell the methamphetamine from here.
34nineteen
Well-known member
Maybe this is his machine shop. I could see them saying to leave the spark plug out to blow any debris out of the cylinder. Bravo to these guys getting it done with limited resources.
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Glad you guys are having so much fun at my expense. No meth involved, I put the bike back together per the manual, but cant hook up neg terminal. The bike is useless to me without being able to find the problem, so maybe I gave too much information, and confused you all. There is a bad ground or a short somewhere that is preventing me from hooking up the neg battery lead. I was hoping for suggestions not smart ass remarks from people I know have more experience with the bikes, so I apologize for giving more information than was required to get to that point.
I mentioned the push button start because I had trouble getting the starter wire connected to it, thought maybe that was the source, and thought perhaps you guys might have had an experience with that sort of revision, or problems arising from it.
Maybe if I knew where the ground points other than the tie bar, and the two under the seat were, I could resolve this. What is the triple and where would that ground point be specifically. I cant seem to locate that information but have seen it referenced in the forum, although I am not certain it would help. That is why I thought asking someone with more experience would help, but instead I have become a source of humor. Glad I could make you smirk. I do want to respect your knowledge, but not sure you have it now since you mentioned the fan would start but it wont arc and heat up, I cant connect the damn battery so how could the fan start...the battery isn't hooked up. Did you miss that detail?
No fuses have blown, I have checked every time I tried to connect the battery. There may be inline fuses for the battery tender and power plug that were added, but they should not be receiving power without the bike turned on so....
I'm not going to address the machine shop issue, its none of your concern why I want the bike to run, actually, just know that I do, that's why I asked for help from you.
I mentioned the push button start because I had trouble getting the starter wire connected to it, thought maybe that was the source, and thought perhaps you guys might have had an experience with that sort of revision, or problems arising from it.
Maybe if I knew where the ground points other than the tie bar, and the two under the seat were, I could resolve this. What is the triple and where would that ground point be specifically. I cant seem to locate that information but have seen it referenced in the forum, although I am not certain it would help. That is why I thought asking someone with more experience would help, but instead I have become a source of humor. Glad I could make you smirk. I do want to respect your knowledge, but not sure you have it now since you mentioned the fan would start but it wont arc and heat up, I cant connect the damn battery so how could the fan start...the battery isn't hooked up. Did you miss that detail?
No fuses have blown, I have checked every time I tried to connect the battery. There may be inline fuses for the battery tender and power plug that were added, but they should not be receiving power without the bike turned on so....
I'm not going to address the machine shop issue, its none of your concern why I want the bike to run, actually, just know that I do, that's why I asked for help from you.
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34nineteen
Well-known member
This is really all that we needed. Lets get started.....
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34nineteen
Well-known member
So, I'm not even going to look at the service book for this one, lets just do common sense...
The facts:
-You get a pretty significant arc when you try to connect the battery.
-But a fuse doesn't blow.
- All of the circuits are protected by fuses except one.... the main battery cable.
-You said you had head work done, so you either rotated the engine, or removed the frame.
A : My guess is that you crushed the positive battery cable when you rotated the engine back in place (or reinstalled the frame).
You're likely going to have to re-rotate the engine or pull the frame off to get access to it. You may be lucky enough to be able to just remove the front and rear mounting bolts and tie bars and let the engine down an inch or two, and hopefully get access. You are going to need to remove the harness and reinsulate it before you go on.
Is it a ground issue? No! Unless you mean the positive cable being pushed into the frame and being grounded out. A grounding issue would either look like your battery was low on charge or not connected at all, at this point. Once you got it running, it would manifest in other ways.
The facts:
-You get a pretty significant arc when you try to connect the battery.
-But a fuse doesn't blow.
- All of the circuits are protected by fuses except one.... the main battery cable.
-You said you had head work done, so you either rotated the engine, or removed the frame.
A : My guess is that you crushed the positive battery cable when you rotated the engine back in place (or reinstalled the frame).
You're likely going to have to re-rotate the engine or pull the frame off to get access to it. You may be lucky enough to be able to just remove the front and rear mounting bolts and tie bars and let the engine down an inch or two, and hopefully get access. You are going to need to remove the harness and reinsulate it before you go on.
Is it a ground issue? No! Unless you mean the positive cable being pushed into the frame and being grounded out. A grounding issue would either look like your battery was low on charge or not connected at all, at this point. Once you got it running, it would manifest in other ways.
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Rays
Well-known member
The one area of suspicion for a high current ground short is the starter motor cable going to the battery positive as mentioned in the previous post, therefore this is a point to look into -
I'm not familiar with what this is - I have seen the push buttons that mechanically push the solenoid but mention of connecting the starter wire on something catches my eye given the direct connection to battery with the main starter wire.
Can you post a picture of what this set-up is please?
I'm not familiar with what this is - I have seen the push buttons that mechanically push the solenoid but mention of connecting the starter wire on something catches my eye given the direct connection to battery with the main starter wire.
Can you post a picture of what this set-up is please?
Cooter
Well-known member
You are getting razzed because you are asking for total guesses with ZERO info or communication skills. Note we are still helping...
Read this again ^^^
Lack of a ground point will not arc and get hot. Even hooking the battery up backwards, will not arc and get hot, you have a straight short to ground in a very big wire.
The starter wire (the big red one) has voltage ALL THE TIME. It goes directly from the battery + to the starter terminal. You mentioned you had trouble getting it to reach the starter.... I'm betting that without much info, without even a basic description, and without any pictures at all, 34:19 is right.
You can install an engine, but can't check a big red wire thats only 10" long?
Wanna know what else is thick, red, smoking hot, and 10" long?
Read this again ^^^
Lack of a ground point will not arc and get hot. Even hooking the battery up backwards, will not arc and get hot, you have a straight short to ground in a very big wire.
The starter wire (the big red one) has voltage ALL THE TIME. It goes directly from the battery + to the starter terminal. You mentioned you had trouble getting it to reach the starter.... I'm betting that without much info, without even a basic description, and without any pictures at all, 34:19 is right.
You can install an engine, but can't check a big red wire thats only 10" long?
Wanna know what else is thick, red, smoking hot, and 10" long?
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Cooter
Well-known member
Twizzlers.
34nineteen
Well-known member
So I decided to actually look at the service manual.... and right at the beginning I found this diagram.
Which is this wire(s). Either of these shorting to ground will cause a arc and wires to heat up when you connect the battery, regardless of whether you're hooking it up backwards or not... which wouldnt surprise me either.
Unless you have some other wires hooked up to the battery you failed to mention (wouldnt be surprised). Plus with all your blathering about a starter wire and button "revision" , who knows what you might have going on there. For all we know he has a jumper cable attached to the positive terminal and the engine in his search for the "triple" and the grounding issue".
Which is this wire(s). Either of these shorting to ground will cause a arc and wires to heat up when you connect the battery, regardless of whether you're hooking it up backwards or not... which wouldnt surprise me either.
Unless you have some other wires hooked up to the battery you failed to mention (wouldnt be surprised). Plus with all your blathering about a starter wire and button "revision" , who knows what you might have going on there. For all we know he has a jumper cable attached to the positive terminal and the engine in his search for the "triple" and the grounding issue".
Thanks, that helps, it is obviously a big wire short, I appreciate the information, and I can take the razz. Just as long as I can punch it back with same consideration,
because I needed the help. The reason I blathered about the starter push button was because I am aware it is representing a "big wire" issue and no, I didn't hook the battery up backwards, its not possible the wire is too "short", haha.
I did remove the frame so I'll rewind, and thank you. I really didn't change any of the information I gave, I just wrote it like a girl, cuz I am. See that explains everything for you doesn't it? I admit the twizzler joke was hysterical. Don't tell anyone, though, you'll ruin my reputation for sure.
I didn't install the push button, I just reconnected it, and the trouble I had with that was actually just getting a wrench on it in tight quarters.
I'll send a pic tomorrow, for your further edification, of the push button starter, and let you know how it goes.
Thanks again
because I needed the help. The reason I blathered about the starter push button was because I am aware it is representing a "big wire" issue and no, I didn't hook the battery up backwards, its not possible the wire is too "short", haha.
I did remove the frame so I'll rewind, and thank you. I really didn't change any of the information I gave, I just wrote it like a girl, cuz I am. See that explains everything for you doesn't it? I admit the twizzler joke was hysterical. Don't tell anyone, though, you'll ruin my reputation for sure.
I didn't install the push button, I just reconnected it, and the trouble I had with that was actually just getting a wrench on it in tight quarters.
I'll send a pic tomorrow, for your further edification, of the push button starter, and let you know how it goes.
Thanks again
The "push" button start shouldn't be a "big" wire situation. Hopefully it was wired better than that. No one said you hooked the battery up wrong. The question is it the correct battery. Are the terminals oriented correctly. The same size battery can have different positive and negative terminal locations.
