Mr. Belfer,

[mrlogix]

This thread is to just provide a place to communicate from 'The Buell Faithful' to those that hold the future of Buell motorcycles in their hands.

There will plenty of ideas of new models like the AX and mid size entry level bikes and such. HD is producing (trying) mid size bikes to grow market share. Companies like Hero are making cookie cutter entry level bikes by the thousands to flood their market with to dominate the motorcycle world. From the beginning, Erik Buell has had a quest to build the ultimate Man to Machine bike to appeal to all us purists of motorcycling. They look different, they feel different, they have a 'function over form' primary directive in design. What I would like to see is a company that remembers its roots and the fan base that got them there. Erik's old motto was 'Own the Corners'. He has done that. So many of us here are testament to that. But the powerplants have left us high and dry. We do own the corners. Now lets own the straights.

I work for General Electric Aviation. Our business model is such that it makes very little money on new engines. The real money is all the business that the customer brings from owning and updating our existing engines. We do introduce new engines with more power, better fuel economy, etc., etc., but we keep our customers happy with what they have already purchased and continue to use. The problem with the over 100K existing Buells out there is the lack of support. There has been several supporting businesses started to try to continue that support as there should be. But without company support they are still a dying breed. If you came up with a power plant that can be used for new models and had retrofit capabilities to the XB models, you would provide the bridge to cover the gap between the 'Faithful' and the new fan base to grow the Marquee. The 1190 bridges the gap for us 1125 guys, but needs a little more factory involvement. If you do this for the XB owners, well, I will just leave that right there.

Erik's new motto was 'Fiercely Independent'. That he is, and that we are. Don't lose sight of this. We as Buellers, are a fiercely independent bunch of assholes. I love that I can cruise my favorite roads, come across some other sportbike riders and start to play with them, stuff it deep in the corners and use the torque to pull a lead out of the corners and then have them surround the bike down the road at a gas stop, to see what the hell is that.

I am rambling now so I will stop and let someone else here smarter than me have their say.
Thanks for listening,
John

 

[Gloomshadow]

I never thought of a retro-fit motor for the XB.. that's a good idea. You just order it in a crate and it bolts right in.. liquid cooled, 110-130 horse range with the same torque as we have now. There are 100,000 potential buyers out there already.

 

[mrlogix]

^^ this. Look at how many can be brought back from the dead. Would be worth the work if I was going to have a modern powertrain. :angel:

 

[heagachongoose]

I feel like a retrofit motor from EBR is out of the question for xb's.

However. In the next year or two, Harley will discontinue Buell support and may even relinquish what holds they still have on the Buell name. That being said, it makes little to no sense for EBR to acquire such assets from a business standpoint. It makes much more sense to build a new bike similar to the XB's rather than to cater to the old ones. You can't build a successful business living off the past, you have to create a successful future. Using the basis of the old Buell designs along with EBRs new assets they can create a line to supersede the old Buell lines, much like the 1190 is to the 1125. Would it be good for support for EBR to support the old Buell lines? Yes. Would it be a good financial move? Probanly not. Would it help EBR get slated among the big boys? No. Would it be nice if it were to happen? Yes.

I've noticed a lot of people have the wrong mindset about EBR. EBR is not the momma bear to all Buells from the yesteryears. It is a seperate entity with an intent to be an AMERICAN world power in the motorcycle game. Buell support will most likely have to come from elsewhere for the most part. As far as Buell goes, a new era is here.

The Buell community is a small niche, but a strong one. Look for another company to steup up and take the wheel. EBR has bigger fish to fry. They will be after the support of former Buell owners and new customers alike. They should remember their heritage but always be constantly and consistently aware of their goal and what it will take to reach it.

 

[thrstrmech]

Mr. Belfer, thanks for picking up the ball and running with it. You've got a great company, product, design, and engineer....now back to work and get these bikes off the assembly line, onto showroom floors and back on the road. Same for parts, factory and dealer support as well as consumer. We've had enough BS from HD and Hero...let's keep this in house, so to speak. Re-engage the original EBR moto....Fiercely Independent, thank you.

 

[Gloomshadow]

I don't know.. Sportsters have been "living off the past, going back to the 1950s" .. EBR wouldn't even have to really MAKE a XB crate motor, they could probably just buy something already in existence and just make motor mounts for it and sell it as a kit. Maybe a de-tuned and tweaked 1190 motor?... we can dream, cant we? haha

 

[Theycallmecrash]

I wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt give a **** about buellxb.com. the EBR presence here is next to none, and owners are in the ebrforum.com page. A good business man wouldnt do more than tell us to drop the trash and move on to a newer better product or be left behind.

 

[mrlogix]

Hey Crash, nice of you to post, was looking for your opinion. Looking at his post about what he has in his garage.

1978 Puch Maxi
1976 Motobecane V50
1970 Honda CL350
1971 Honda CL350 Sportsman Racer
1971 Triumph Bonneville
1971 Norton 750 Commando
1994 Kawasaki ZX11
1965 Vespa
1998 Harley Davidson Road King
2002 Yamaha R1
2006 Ducati SC1000

Only two of them are in the 2000's. The variety shows that he has some appreciation of what 'character' of the bike is, an intangible that can't be bought. I have a strong feeling that he is going to want to do something different than 'business as usual'.

Mr. Belfer, I know what you have posted on the other forums. We are a little different here at BuellXB.com, we have a saying, pic's or it didn't happen.

 

[BambamXB12r]

As much as I would like to think he is going to support all us XB guys because that would be a dream come true. I think he is going to focus on EBR and get it out of the red before he entertains the idea of support for us. Just like a few people have stated. It only makes sense from a business perspective to do it that way.

However one can dream and hope for a modern, bolt in, replacement power plant. That would be a great day. Honestly anything to keep these old beauties on the road would make me happy.

 

[mrlogix]

I can't stop thinking about the consultant fees Erik owed Porsche and The Japanese engine manufacturer. A new smaller displacement engine/trans? I'm just saying that if it could be adapted to the XB frame he could come out with their new models AND make a retrofit crate motor. Would increase revenue for the powerplant. When you engineer a powerplant it has a life cycle, and if you can make that engine serve multiple platforms the engineering costs a recovered much faster. It would tie the existing customer base with a new customer base. Not all XB owners would want to upgrade and would sell their old bikes to buy new ones. The new owners of the older models would have an upgrade to bring them into the monetary flow of product.

Is it what everyone else would do? No. What all of use would love to see them do. Hell Yeah.

Just saying....

 

[Bruce@EBR]

A good owner listens to the riders that built the brand. I'm listening.

Obviously, I can't hang out online often, but I do read and do hear and do appreciate you. More good news to come.

"Pics or it didn't happen", eh?

 

[mrlogix]

:up::up: ten f***cking letters. Will fill you in on the 10 letter thing later.

 

[BambamXB12r]

An owner who actually listens and reads.... Call me an optimist but I see great things in the future for EBR. Can't wait to see what the future holds. :applause:

 

[mmcn49]

Hi Bruce,

Sounds Great! As mentioned earlier we who own XB’s, (I have two) are a little concerned about the parts situation as the bikes age and HD no longer supports Buell.

It would be nice if in the next couple years EBR could set up a separate profit center selling those parts, (the original Buell owners would love you to death).

Only the best as you move forward. When the Adventure Bike comes out I may even trade my two TT’s in for one.

MMcN

 

[Gloomshadow]

Yeah I have two XB's also.. and there are a lot of XBs still in pretty good condition falling into the hands of younger riders (a lot of us are getting long in the tooth around here) each one serves as a rolling advertisement for EBR.. I woudnt sell either of my XBs, they are in the stable to stay. If a crate motor kit came my way I would buy one of them instantly the other one I would have to think about it because I love my 1203 ... If it was a kit with EBR badges and maybe some new plastics I would jump on it. Uprated S tails and even R tails with different subframes that would all be cool. Anything to keep an XB "in the game" I would be up for it. The bike itself came out during a time when nakeds weren't in style , now that they are in style, the XB is actually cooler NOW than it was when it first came out. A XB is kinda like owning a Monster or a Sportster, if it 'speaks to you", you tend to keep it and keep buying cool stuff for it. Even if a crate motor came out, I would still keep my old XB motor... the Thunderstorm motor is actually a real good street motor, not refined but hell, that's one of its strengths in a way..
Im thinking that support of the XB and the 1125s could be a instant cash flow, we cant get solid front rotor mounts and little things like that anymore. Plug and play digital instrument clusters would be cool.. there are just a lot of little things that we would be interested in.

 

[heagachongoose]

Holy hell this guy is everywhere on the internet lol.

Nice to see you here Bruce :loyal: Welcome to Buellxb.com, the online heart and soul of the Buell family.

I feel the best place to start with supporting the XB's is to develop the next generation, then work back from there. Make the 2nd gen bike as integrated into the 1st gen as possible. You can make replacement parts without directly making replacement parts if you get what I mean here.

If I'm not mistaken though, HD still owns the rights to a lot of the XB stuff until later this coming year. By the time HD is timed out, hopefully EBR will be on it's good feet and off to a run. If the stars did so align, picking up the pieces to support the past generation of Buell riders could secure the future of the company. And I don't just mean the XB's here, lets not forget about the tubers. Beautiful bikes in their own right.

EBR already has an estabelished world class superbike, now they need a solid mid-level bike. Which is exactly where the 2nd gen XB comes in. Maybe even go back to the roots and offer an optional turbo model perhaps? Or even re-introduce a form of the 1125 as a sport touring model? So many different directions and opportunities to take here!

The next big thing up, or already here, is the dual sport and cafe racer crowd. Maybe even getting in on the dirt crowd would gain some momentum.

So many options.

ten f***cking letters.

Is that actually catching on? Is it a thing now? Lol

 

[Gloomshadow]

everything said has been pretty good ideas for the coming years but I think what EBR will do for now is get back to racing the 1190 and doing what they can to sell off what they have made already and supporting the 1190 customers. Those guys HAVE to be at the "front of the line" considering the coin that they dropped for the 1190.. and if you want them out there racing you gotta support them. If the racing efforts show good results, EBR is going to get the support it needs from other outfits and banks so they can have the pull they need to make stuff for us...

BUT YEAH.. a 2nd Gen XB.. that same XB frame with a liquid cooled V-twin, 6-speed.. belt or chain final (your choice or BOTH ha ha) then we can buy 2nd Gen parts as upgrades, whole crate motors, subframes, body parts ANYTHING we want to bolt on to our XBs, we can just order it.. **** that would be awesome.. a totally modular system. "The AR-15 of American motorcycles"

EBR could just run TWO FRAMES.. a 1190 frame for the bigger bikes and a XB frame for small size bikes with that wild short wheelbase.. that would be kickass

but yeah, with a 2nd gen XB, guys that wanted the new motor could phase the Thunderstorm out of their XBs and guys who want to keep the Thunderstorm motor already have an aftermarket for that motor..

 

[heagachongoose]

Exactly. Buell kind of touched the tip of the "modular" iceberg years ago with the xb series.

But just the tip. Lol

 

[Gloomshadow]

hell yeah, that's one of the things that made the XB so kickass.. you could make any bike you wanted. "It aint broke-- DONT FIX IT!" I say just keep going with it.. now that Harley is gone, put a liquid cooled motor into that same bike and modernize some of the features and styling and that thing will sell.. and on a bike with that little wheelbase you don't need 190 horse... 100-110 to the ground would be wild as hell. "Street focus man, STREET FOCUS" HAHAH

when you think about .. I see more XBs on the road then 1125s and 1190s combined.. the XB could be evolved into the 1911 .45 or AR-15 of the motorcycle world. EBR/Buell version of the Harley Sportster but in this case, different motor selections... the XB frame is competent enough to just be a "EBR standard" platform for middleweights... AND THOSE SAME WHEELS TOO... I love the stock XB wheels or 1190 wheels whatever is easiest or more economical.

 

[williegoat]

A Norton and a '67 Chevy pickup! Bruce, I believe you are the real thing. Welcome :up: