Need a little tuning help please! Free Spirits exhaust this time

[Nubicon]

OK, I am well aware that everyone is really sick of tuning questions after the last few weeks but I find myself in need of direction here. I'll try to keep this organized and real short so as to preserve our sanity :eagerness:

I have a 2009 XB12Ss with 3,000 miles on it. Ran great, but sounded like a vacuum cleaner. So I had to mess with it. I picked up a Free Spirits reverse exit exhaust from a forum member because I obviously have some attraction to weird things that are uncommon. And also because I just have to do everything the hard way. Looks like this:


The problem I have is with tuning. I have the BUEZD ECM so files aren't readily available, and I have never seen a tune for this exhaust for any firmware. And I have been reading that this version of the ecm has been known to be buggy and problematic all by its lonesome. Fantastic! I've got Buelltooth and Ecmdroid, ECM spy, and Tunerpro RT at my disposal. I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing with the latter two. Willing to learn (just more than a little apprehensive to start out with no clear direction).

I've tried a Buell race map as well as a D&D map from Buelltooth, neither of them are close to perfect for my application. It's rideable, but with some rather unnerving flat spots. And most alarmingly both programs I have tried do this if I let the bike idle too long:


That pic was provoked slightly by me for drama, but they will glow without my provocation. Only at idle, it's fine while being ridden. So what would you guys recommend I do? I can monitor anything you'd like (and maybe you'd be so kind as to let me know what in the hell I'm looking at!) and provide you with any information I forgot to include. I've already contacted Free Spirits who chose to disregard my questions about tuning their exhaust and inform me that they have discontinued production of their Buell exhausts. Good to know, thanks for that illuminating communique there Free Spirits.

I also emailed IDS to see if they have any suggestions. Immediate goals would be 1) cease to be a 93 octane idling night light 2) smooth linear power band, especially while transitioning from cruise to acceleration. That's where I'm at. Does anyone else on the forum have this exhaust or know of anyone who does? Thanks in advance, I appreciate any help I can get. And I'd much rather get help than brick this thing!

 

[tokinbuller]

do you have ECM droid; ECM spy and a version of Megalogviewer? Its really easy to make a tune.

Edit* ok you have these, not sure about Turnerpro RT though as i havent used it. I used Megalogviewer for viewing logs and making fuel maps. I believe there is a free version if your interested. Not sure my knowledge will apply to Turnerpro.

 

[tokinbuller]

badarse exhaust BTW

 

[OnidaSTT]

TunerPro is worth learning as it opens up the whole ECM to changes (always save the original first). There is a tuning guide and a setup guide out there for it. With a little searching there is a lot of info out there on using it to tune, I printed out the relevant info as I found it. To dial the tune in outside of the closed loop area you will need a wide band O2 setup.

 

[Nubicon]

I'm attempting to record some things in order to see which way to jump and am not having much luck. When I try to check the AFV all it shows is 85.2% rear and 100% front. And so far that's all it shows while in the live data channels as I'm warming it up.

Also just noticed that there is a box checked that says closed loop is enabled. Is that locking the bike into closed loop operation only? Hmmm....

And while I might get some kind soul's attention, how do I view engine temp on the ECMDroid app? Thanks, I really feel like putting a carb on this thing.

 

[d_adams]

I'll suggest the same thing I did on the previous thread for the straight pipe tuning. Widebands. You will never get it tuned properly if you don't spend a little bit of money. $320 for a DLG-1 and you'll KNOW what it's doing. Narrow band O2 sensors simply will NOT do the job.
If you have $$ to burn, I'd go with a 4 or 5 gas analyzer, but it's kinda silly to do so with widebands as cheap as they are.

 

[d_adams]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCWbXa3ITTk

 

[d_adams]

If you want to go a little farther into it and actually log it, you'll need a couple of wires to add to the harness on the gray connector, pins 1 and 33.

 

[Nubicon]

Can anyone answer the questions I've asked? Much like nearly everyone who visits this board I have zero interest in further complicating this with a wideband 02 sensor.

 

[tokinbuller]

Idle closed loop? That should be checked. Engine temp in droid is CLT. Record a log with the Droid app. Just click the box to convert to MSL file on the logging screen.

 

[Cooter]

I had some issues with a ECM running BUEZD firmware. It would re-set the AFV values to random (but not 100) values when the key was cycled. I rarely suggest this, but you might want to upgrade the firmware first. BUE2D is the latest and some Harley dealers will still do it for you. Then you have access to several more tunes to try with ECMDroid.
That firmware update also comes with the latest tune, but it's for a stock system. Several people hint they can upgrade the firmware or are getting close to being able to do it, but I'm blue from holding my breath.

The pipe glowing is fine. Especially when you rev it up while standing still. Stop that

You get to CLT on the live data screen, by pressing one of the variables there and scrolling to it.
You should put O2 sensor voltage on there too. You can see if it's lazy and causing these issues instead of blaming the tune.

Your AFV in the front should be grayed out or you need to disable front O2 because your '09 doesn't have one.
The rear AFV at 85 means the ECM is pulling 15% (!!) of fuel out of the WHOLE map for some reason. Could be a lazy O2. They are cheap and easy to replace by removing the rear shock, fan, and using a 7/8" crowsfoot.

Keep Idle closed loop checked to ON. It lets the ECM read the O2 sensor at idle and adjust it accordingly.

Re-set the AFV (rear) to 100 and ride it. Does it run better?

EITHER

Use an existing tune and load it with whatever program you are comfortable with.

OR
Tune it yourself, using a wideband O2 sensor set-up.

Dean is right (go figure) and tuning with a NB O2 sensor is pointless and annoying to both you and everyone trying to help you do it wrong. Tuning with a WB sensor is easier, MUCH easier than doing it half ass with a NB and chasing your tail.

 

[d_adams]

Dean is right (go figure)


no, say it ain't so.

 

[d_adams]

Can anyone answer the questions I've asked? Much like nearly everyone who visits this board I have zero interest in further complicating this with a wideband 02 sensor.

Sorry man, sometimes the correct answer just sucks. I'll help where I can, but if you don't like the answer, well.... dunno what to tell you now.

 

[Cooter]

Har har. I agree to both points.

"You may not like the answer, but you are the one who asked." may just be a great quote for every single tuning thread we have here.

 

[d_adams]

I'd also like to add, I'm not trying to be a jerk or w/e, it's just that there's only a few ways to do it "right" and get good results and numerous ways to do it wrong. I'm not a professional tuner (or anything else for that matter) but I do know what will (or should) work. If I'm wrong and it gets proven that I'm wrong, my apologies in advance. I try not to disseminate bad information.

 

[user_deleted]

Can anyone answer the questions I've asked? Much like nearly everyone who visits this board I have zero interest in further complicating this with a wideband 02 sensor.

nubicon: i respect you and have told you as much in the recent past. your beat-down of our dearly departed Fabiodriven was outstanding. having said that perhaps a bit more of a tender loving touch might get you to where you want to go with this thread. tokin and onida and dean possess an incredible wealth of info and knowledge regarding the "black art" of tuning these factory ecm units. only mentioning this as i'd hate to see this thread go south and evolve into yet another keyboard rumble on here which seems to have become the norm lately.

 

[Internet Annoyance]

Ill be watching with interest,,, as I am the guy that sold this to him. Plus I promised that it IS tunable and I believe it is. But I am having to relearn all this tuning stuff again and will be applying it to several current projects so its useful, so please continue. What works, what does not.

Now, just offering my opinion here and far from any expert, It would seem there is 2 options.
#1) Find existing maps for his current NB setup for similar type big bore-high flow exhaust. Seems there has to be something out there that is an approximation, and you cannot tell me that something does not exist.

*Disclaimer,,, it is clear that a NB is not an optimal tuning setup so any maps are simply a "Good enough" patch. It seems that is what he is currently looking for and why not point to one to try?

#2) Obviously a Wideband setup is the only viable solution here, and the old adage "Garbage in-Garbage out" applies as the ECM/EFI can only respond to what the computer does. The computer cannot function properly if it does not have good data. So, based on my limited knowledge, Wideband seems to be required for any function tuning past a certain point.

The issues are simply how to do that affordably and without a computer engineering degree. It is do-able, just needs a good path to get there. It would be of a great service to point to other threads on how, or help the slow learners like me.

Keep in mind Buell owners are fortunate that at least we have options to do tuning and resources to do so. There are other brands out there that simply are not there yet and such mods are simply not allowed. (More the pity) Check out what Modern Norton owners are dealing with. Sadly most wont look past their tunnel vision to see what other options there are.

See: http://www.accessnorton.com/map-talk-t23761.html (poor bastards!) many other tales of woe on there about other owners who cant get a decent tune on their bike

 

[tokinbuller]

I can help you make a conservative tune using your NB. Not nearly as effective as a WB as others have stated, but will def be better than what it sounds like you have.

Make a log, reset your AFV to 100,record starting from a cold start, and ride around for about 20-30 mins. Go through the gears, take it up to 5k rpm a few times. Try to hit some slow speeds, and high way speeds in the log to get the best mix of riding conditions.
Then make a 2nd log. Do all the above again, only this time before riding, using your droid app, go under ECM parameters > general configuration and un-check the box for open loop learning. Under o2 settings change your min/max AFV to 100 and change the open loop learn delay from 3 >0. Now hit the apply settings, and burn these changes. Now ride and record.
After you log you can change back the settings you just changed.

Post up these two logs, and post your eeprom you running used during these logs.

Tokin