I have a '04 XB12S with a race ecm and buell race exhaust. I'm looking to switch out my exhaust to something new. A mechanic at the local harley dealer has a Force exhaust on his twelve and it sounds utterly amazing. But after calling and talking to the guys at useforce.com I'm having second thoughts. They do not recommend this exhaust for the twelve because it is too small/restrictive. So I guess the opinion I'm looking for is should I get the force anyways? The other exhausts I am considering are the Micron Serpent and the TiForce system. Though the TiForce is probably out of my price range. Any opinion and information you guys can provide would be much appreciated.
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Need exhaust opinions
- Thread starter Xcler8n
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BuellPartsGuy
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Micron is an excellent performing/sounding pipe
dans03firebolt
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I have heard nothing but great things about the Remus system as well. I have the Buell Race pipe too and I am getting sick of it I want something louder and better performing. I may switch sometime soon myself.
mikedsilva
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- May 30, 2008
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i have gotten hold of a 2005 XB12Ss. It has a Full Micron system on it and sounds awesome. I'm not used to Harley engines and this thing shakes like a bitch. I've had Ducatis before and love the feel of the 90degree twin, but this Buell is something else.
It wont hold a constant throttle for riding through the suburbs; is that normal? under acceleration it feels fine. The vibes dont really smooth out till around 3000rpm...
I love the sound of the Micron system. Not sure if the "flat" bends in the front header are intended...
It wont hold a constant throttle for riding through the suburbs; is that normal? under acceleration it feels fine. The vibes dont really smooth out till around 3000rpm...
I love the sound of the Micron system. Not sure if the "flat" bends in the front header are intended...
i found a cool web site http://www.americansportbike.com/ there is an exhaust shoot out , has pics, sound files, dyno charts, comparisons between other exhaust systems for buell xbs. i found it pretty usefull.
scobbie001
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- Nov 19, 2007
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They are intended...I'm not sure of all the correct terms, but in the end it is to make the header pipes equal length. LeFox has one, he can tell you all about it.
Xcler8n (and all the rest),
first of all, you got an 04, so you got the amber(goldish rims), look at the Tiforce and realize the given match
The Tiforce is way better quality than the Micron, no discussion. The Micron give you great performance for the money, the Tiforce is similar.
The Tiforce shows a report, 10bhp (brake horse powers) with original ecm and air filter. It is an optically perfect match to the gold rims. Tiforce has gold anodised rear/front parts and a titanium shell (muffler) and big equal sized headers that looks brute. You know you use Tiforce without the chin spoiler!?
That is the way to go
[up]
The Micron sound is raw, loud and tinner.
Micron is not street legal due to it's noise.
So it might give problem sooner or later!
Tiforce won't do this!
It sounds less in db than Buell race pipe, but as mentioned.. Tiforce roars deeper in tone (like thunder) and has more bass grunt.. hehe like a big mean engine.
It works great with race ecm (better than the original header and buell race muffler). Do use atleast and open airbox configuration and race ecm. Later on i suggest a Remus powerizer (or TFi doberdeck techlusion box) and origial ecm. The Tiforce is a free flowing exhaust system and it's principle is close to Remus own race pipes (they do not do complete exhaust systems. It's expensive to do headers... especially good working) so the match for the Remus powerizer is super.
The Remus powerizer is also self-adjusting (microprocessor driven), so it's feature proof and you don't ever need to have it adjusted at a dyno (saves money to get it to perform at it's best.
I am biased and am honest about that.
I suggest, with out doing any engine surgery, but let the bike (engine) work at it's best:
* Tiforce
* F.A.S.T. kit + crank case breathers
(( or K&N filter in open airbox configuration))
* Tank Dummy with extra airintakes
* Remus powerizer (or TFI)
* Original ecm
(cut out the white wire at the ecm connector [pin:8]
* Primary gearing kit (more torque + acceleration)
Since you got air intakes in the side of the frame (03-05), the new frames does not, you still have the chance to force more air into the engine with the help of a new tank cover dummy. A dummy with airintakes (often at the side's).
That is great, use such a dummy and an open airbox + (or better F.A.S.T. kit) the Remus and the Tiforce. The engine will get much more air, the powerizer adapts and corrects the mixture of air/fuel.
When you cut the white wire and use Remus powerizer, the ecm doesn't block the fuel in the lower rpms as much as it does with the wire connected.
You do need an exhaust valve emulator also (to stop the warning light in the display)
Tiforce:
Tiforce rear:
Lateral airintake dummy:
Remus powerizer + white wire [pin:8] cut out
first of all, you got an 04, so you got the amber(goldish rims), look at the Tiforce and realize the given match
The Tiforce is way better quality than the Micron, no discussion. The Micron give you great performance for the money, the Tiforce is similar.
The Tiforce shows a report, 10bhp (brake horse powers) with original ecm and air filter. It is an optically perfect match to the gold rims. Tiforce has gold anodised rear/front parts and a titanium shell (muffler) and big equal sized headers that looks brute. You know you use Tiforce without the chin spoiler!?
That is the way to go
[up]
The Micron sound is raw, loud and tinner.
Micron is not street legal due to it's noise.
So it might give problem sooner or later!
Tiforce won't do this!
It sounds less in db than Buell race pipe, but as mentioned.. Tiforce roars deeper in tone (like thunder) and has more bass grunt.. hehe like a big mean engine.
It works great with race ecm (better than the original header and buell race muffler). Do use atleast and open airbox configuration and race ecm. Later on i suggest a Remus powerizer (or TFi doberdeck techlusion box) and origial ecm. The Tiforce is a free flowing exhaust system and it's principle is close to Remus own race pipes (they do not do complete exhaust systems. It's expensive to do headers... especially good working) so the match for the Remus powerizer is super.
The Remus powerizer is also self-adjusting (microprocessor driven), so it's feature proof and you don't ever need to have it adjusted at a dyno (saves money
to get it to perform at it's best.I am biased and am honest about that.
I suggest, with out doing any engine surgery, but let the bike (engine) work at it's best:
* Tiforce
* F.A.S.T. kit + crank case breathers
(( or K&N filter in open airbox configuration))
* Tank Dummy with extra airintakes
* Remus powerizer (or TFI)
* Original ecm
(cut out the white wire at the ecm connector [pin:8]
* Primary gearing kit (more torque + acceleration)
Since you got air intakes in the side of the frame (03-05), the new frames does not, you still have the chance to force more air into the engine with the help of a new tank cover dummy. A dummy with airintakes (often at the side's).
That is great, use such a dummy and an open airbox + (or better F.A.S.T. kit) the Remus and the Tiforce. The engine will get much more air, the powerizer adapts and corrects the mixture of air/fuel.
When you cut the white wire and use Remus powerizer, the ecm doesn't block the fuel in the lower rpms as much as it does with the wire connected.
You do need an exhaust valve emulator also (to stop the warning light in the display)
Tiforce:
Tiforce rear:
Lateral airintake dummy:
Remus powerizer + white wire [pin:8] cut out
sin, don't entirely agree with your statement here.
no micron has ever been recalled or returned.
it's a full race exhaust with no option to install db-killers, which is why it's not streetlegal
and since the diameter of the headers are bigger than the original, i don't recommend using them with standard ecm. the micron neither for that matter.
but...they are both nice systems and like i said...
sound & performance => micron
sound & looks => ti-force
if you want it all and can get your hands on a deepthunder exhaust...do it!
the welds are state of the art, there a no rivets than can break or tear into your exhaust, no springs that can come loose and it's maintenance free.
no micron has ever been recalled or returned.
it's bass that makes your db high, not sharp sounds. the micron is low in sound and gets sharper, like a screaming sound above 4500rpm.
it's a full race exhaust with no option to install db-killers, which is why it's not streetlegal
ti-force own website give a dyno with a 2.2hp gain
and since the diameter of the headers are bigger than the original, i don't recommend using them with standard ecm. the micron neither for that matter.
but...they are both nice systems and like i said...
sound & performance => micron
sound & looks => ti-force
if you want it all and can get your hands on a deepthunder exhaust...do it!
Okay so deep thunder is the best of the best then? Since Hillbilly motors doesn't seem to sell anything anymore where do I even start to look?
LeFox --- I came across a pic of your bike on devilstars (I think) and was wondering if your micron system is jet coated? Do you have the new RH air scoop now that it fits as well?
Sinpieces--I found a link I believe you posted in anther post (can't find it now) for the FAST system. There were three choices and of course none of them were in english. Need some help with this.
I know lots of questions and I'm sure I'll have more once I get to work and find all your other posts that I can't seem to findright now.
LeFox --- I came across a pic of your bike on devilstars (I think) and was wondering if your micron system is jet coated? Do you have the new RH air scoop now that it fits as well?
Sinpieces--I found a link I believe you posted in anther post (can't find it now) for the FAST system. There were three choices and of course none of them were in english. Need some help with this.
I know lots of questions and I'm sure I'll have more once I get to work and find all your other posts that I can't seem to findright now.
let me know when you do...i was too late to get them from hillbilly and am still looking where i could get my hands on oneXcler8n said:
can't fit the front spoiler anymore, though.
yea, it's ceramicly coatedXcler8n said:
and yea i got a scoop for it, but with the ecm mapping and the nice black header i'm not using one personally.
Hi guys,
i know a guy who used the Deep Thunder and he disliked it very much (i talked to him in person). Due to it beeing too low, ground clearance is worthless... and it feel apart in the joints (he did say so and he took it off). Tiforce also have joints, but mine and a guy i know has not have any problems with ours. Yes Lefox, the 10 bhp info i sent was wrong for original ecm and air filter, sorry! It was not with original ecm and just original air filter, it was another set up i was looking at.
Clumsy!
Though, to get same results and to say that for example that one set up produces more gains, also requires that they are tested with same bike under same circumstances. I don't doubt you can get different people measuring same set up and bike but with different results at different facilities (and/or maybe same facility).
I know it has happened.
The Tiforce and Micron has not been officialy face to face tested, so to say that one produces more gains over the other can be difficult. But if anyone has a report, we can check it.
I would surely add the Italian Termigoni if we talk complete systems. I think you can get one of these with legal noise levels also.
Regarding the quality, the Micron is nice for the money no question. But they do make more noise and that is a problem when going to the every second year inspection (vehicle test).
Another aspect that might be relevant to some, is weight. Regarding high noise levels, you are likelyto suffer same problem with the Deep thunder.
You might have to mount it back to original (and that is very likely... how fun is that!?).. I have heard the Micron straight off to my Tiforce. So i base all that mentioning about sound from hearing both at the same time. You can ask all that sell the Micron and the Tiforce for exact evaluation, i know twinmotorcycles have both, mail them. Do not ask a reseller that only carry one of them, you know what they will say. I won't bad talk none of them, it is not what i mean to do, i just personally think the Micron is too loud and screamy (not funny in the long run). I do not say all think like me. The Deep thunder seems most difficult to have though. Where do you find spare parts since Hillbilly seems to be nomore? They do not sell aftermarket gear online and as i have heard they are not avaible as resellers. With the Deep Thunder you will probaly have problems hitting speed bumps all the time, it was just made for track (i was told).
The Deep thunder muffler live a dangerous life (ground clearance) + it's noise levels are high.
You know, when you have the bike a few years i guess it's not funny knowing one have to change exhaust system for the inspection date (that is also why i bought Tiforce).
Lefox, i did not write, the use original ecm only.
Race ecm or original ecm and Tfi or Remus powerizer.
But maybe you ment when i (faulty) wrote about the 10bhp test with original ecm and air filter?
Well well, we all understand.. and that is the idea behind it all!
"The intension" with Remus powerizer is that it will work (substitute) as a remapped ecm. As it self adjust for your set up (Tfi is not self adjusting). The nicest part is that it allows your upgrades without the need of remapping again and again for your changes (if you like to tweak) in air box configuration and/or getting a new tank dummy forcing more air etc etc.
A remapped ecm for the specific set up is probably the best... i do not doubt that.
Oh, the Fat-cat... heck, call them and see to it that they send correct stuff. I did and that was no problem with english.
Try the FAST and the crankcase breathers... the FAST kit is better than the open airbox i had that before and FAST is better.
I hope it all turns out good now
i know a guy who used the Deep Thunder and he disliked it very much (i talked to him in person). Due to it beeing too low, ground clearance is worthless... and it feel apart in the joints (he did say so and he took it off). Tiforce also have joints, but mine and a guy i know has not have any problems with ours. Yes Lefox, the 10 bhp info i sent was wrong for original ecm and air filter, sorry! It was not with original ecm and just original air filter, it was another set up i was looking at.
Clumsy!
Though, to get same results and to say that for example that one set up produces more gains, also requires that they are tested with same bike under same circumstances. I don't doubt you can get different people measuring same set up and bike but with different results at different facilities (and/or maybe same facility).
I know it has happened.
The Tiforce and Micron has not been officialy face to face tested, so to say that one produces more gains over the other can be difficult. But if anyone has a report, we can check it.
I would surely add the Italian Termigoni if we talk complete systems. I think you can get one of these with legal noise levels also.
Regarding the quality, the Micron is nice for the money no question. But they do make more noise and that is a problem when going to the every second year inspection (vehicle test).
Another aspect that might be relevant to some, is weight. Regarding high noise levels, you are likelyto suffer same problem with the Deep thunder.
You might have to mount it back to original (and that is very likely... how fun is that!?).. I have heard the Micron straight off to my Tiforce. So i base all that mentioning about sound from hearing both at the same time. You can ask all that sell the Micron and the Tiforce for exact evaluation, i know twinmotorcycles have both, mail them. Do not ask a reseller that only carry one of them, you know what they will say. I won't bad talk none of them, it is not what i mean to do, i just personally think the Micron is too loud and screamy (not funny in the long run). I do not say all think like me. The Deep thunder seems most difficult to have though. Where do you find spare parts since Hillbilly seems to be nomore? They do not sell aftermarket gear online and as i have heard they are not avaible as resellers. With the Deep Thunder you will probaly have problems hitting speed bumps all the time
, it was just made for track (i was told).The Deep thunder muffler live a dangerous life (ground clearance) + it's noise levels are high.
You know, when you have the bike a few years i guess it's not funny knowing one have to change exhaust system for the inspection date (that is also why i bought Tiforce).
Lefox, i did not write, the use original ecm only.
Race ecm or original ecm and Tfi or Remus powerizer.
But maybe you ment when i (faulty) wrote about the 10bhp test with original ecm and air filter?
Well well, we all understand.. and that is the idea behind it all!
"The intension" with Remus powerizer is that it will work (substitute) as a remapped ecm. As it self adjust for your set up (Tfi is not self adjusting). The nicest part is that it allows your upgrades without the need of remapping again and again for your changes (if you like to tweak) in air box configuration and/or getting a new tank dummy forcing more air etc etc.
A remapped ecm for the specific set up is probably the best... i do not doubt that.
Oh, the Fat-cat... heck, call them and see to it that they send correct stuff. I did and that was no problem with english.
Try the FAST and the crankcase breathers... the FAST kit is better than the open airbox i had that before and FAST is better.
I hope it all turns out good now
Xcler8n,
the art nr you asked me for.
FAST kit/ Art.Nr.:01112.
Crankcase breather kit (for fast kit)/ Art.Nr.:01115.
Remus powerizer/ Art.Nr.:01118.
Tiforce is 5.54Kg, Micron 6.8Kg.
You don't use chin spoiler with Tiforce but you can do it with Micron.
the art nr you asked me for.
FAST kit/ Art.Nr.:01112.
Crankcase breather kit (for fast kit)/ Art.Nr.:01115.
Remus powerizer/ Art.Nr.:01118.
Tiforce is 5.54Kg, Micron 6.8Kg.
You don't use chin spoiler with Tiforce but you can do it with Micron.
Any opinions or experience with something like this set-up?
http://www.trojan-horse.co.uk/prods/84.html
http://www.trojan-horse.co.uk/prods/78.html
http://www.trojan-horse.co.uk/prods/84.html
http://www.trojan-horse.co.uk/prods/78.html
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