piston rings

[BuddyB]

Well, I took the bike out for a ride for the first time.

Cooter you were right, I did exactly as I wanted. BUT, thanks to you all I did have the opinions to help my research and make a (what I think) is an informed decision. 34, I took your hammer performance info and did the heat cycle as they suggested. After that initial round, I took Barretts advice on seating the rings in his break in post.

You all have been a big help.

I thought I'd show you the back story of this project:

A while back the bike and I were involved in a rather high speed low side.


So I left the bike be for a while and I got the itch again. Here's what it looks like today:


The observant eye will see that it is a lightning with a fire bolt tail.

So anyway, thanks everyone and I'm back on the road.

 

[Outlaw]

Ouch that thing was messed up. Guess your both ok now. Looks much much better.

 

[kz6fittycent]

A guy installs a rotary engine in his Buell....


Dont think I'm not stalking you.

What about a Polaris 2-stroke twin, complete with the awful CVT?

 

[ztied]

Glad you got it up and running again

 

[BuddyB]

ya the bike took more of a beating than me. I skidded down the road on my face, and I'm glad I had full leathers on.. but I think the buell might have taken some tumbles into the ditch. But I'm not sure. All I know is that it was basket case.

 

[BuddyB]

Well, got 50 + miles on the bike so far but I do notice that it vibrates much more that before I did the gasket/rings work. It idles fine, pulls hard but MUCH more engine vibration than before the surgery. The motor sounds good. I used the old spark plus as they only had about 400 miles on them and looked good.

I did notice that the fan stayed on much longer when I shut the bike off on the initial ride, but I chalked that up to more friction in the cylinders. When I got back today from a 28 mile ride, the fan stayed on for about 2 minutes this time.

I'm wondering if I did something wrong when I rotated the motor back up into the bike.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[34nineteen]

Well, got 50 + miles on the bike so far but I do notice that it vibrates much more that before I did the gasket/rings work. It idles fine, pulls hard but MUCH more engine vibration than before the surgery. The motor sounds good. I used the old spark plus as they only had about 400 miles on them and looked good.

I did notice that the fan stayed on much longer when I shut the bike off on the initial ride, but I chalked that up to more friction in the cylinders. When I got back today from a 28 mile ride, the fan stayed on for about 2 minutes this time.

I'm wondering if I did something wrong when I rotated the motor back up into the bike.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Check your front motor mount. There should be a gap between the bolt head and the mount. Figure 2-8 in the manual is kind of a bad pic, but you'll get the idea.

Also did you re-torque the rear mount bolt? The long bolt that goes sideways through the mount that is hidden by the RH footpeg/brake mount.

And verify you have all 3 struts attached. There is one by the rear motor mount that can be easy to miss. The front and top ones are easy to see.


And one last thing... since your bike was wrecked, check the mounting points on the rear mount where it bolts to the engine. I've seen those crack around the 4 mounting points where it attaches to the engine. Its going to be a pain to check, and even more of a pain to replace as you will need to remove the frame to get to that mount.

 

[BuddyB]

I checked and there is a gap.

 

[BuddyB]

Also, I did run a buelltooth code scan and there were no current errors but there were two in the stored errors, 15 and 21. I checked the muffler valve and it does seem stuck (stuck closed)... I'll deal with that. The bikes check engine light (or whatever it's called) has not come on either time I took it out. The code 15 said air temp too high/short to ground. I'm not sure if any of this has anything to do with the engine vibration.

 

[34nineteen]

Also, I did run a buelltooth code scan and there were no current errors but there were two in the stored errors, 15 and 21. I checked the muffler valve and it does seem stuck (stuck closed)... I'll deal with that. The bikes check engine light (or whatever it's called) has not come on either time I took it out. The code 15 said air temp too high/short to ground. I'm not sure if any of this has anything to do with the engine vibration.

Probably not, as you said the motor was running strong.

You can turn off the muffler valve function in ECMSpy or ECMDroid to eliminate that error code until you resolve the valve. I would clear the codes and try again and see if the other error returns. It could be something historic from when the bike was crashed or apart.

I'd recommend checking the rear mount before you go much further. If it is broken, its going to break other parts until you resolve it, and that mount does break in crashes. Look at the flange where it mounts to the engine case with 4 bolts.

Also double check to make sure the front mount bolts to the head are holding torque and that the mounting points on the head arent cracked or broken. I found that out the hard way when I bought my last XB and once I removed the mount, I could then see the head was junk.

 

[BuddyB]

Thanks, I will check them out.

 

[34nineteen]

The rubber part is not supposed to come apart but you can see the bolts I'm talking about below. I've seen those "ears" break off on an impact more than once.

 

[BuddyB]

Both front and back isolators seem fine, but I just remembered that when I put the center tie bar assembly back on, the holes didn't line up quite right and had to use a little force to get the bolts started. could the motor have moved laterally when I rotated it back up into the frame?

 

[34nineteen]

Both front and back isolators seem fine, but I just remembered that when I put the center tie bar assembly back on, the holes didn't line up quite right and had to use a little force to get the bolts started. could the motor have moved laterally when I rotated it back up into the frame?

If the isolators are in good shape, you want to loosen the two bolts main bolts for the isolators and removing one of each of the tie bar bolts, giving it a good wiggle around and reattach and retorque the bolts per the spec in the book. It could be that the somehow the motor is twisted in the frame and just needs to realign itself. I'm really reaching for straws on this.

I've noticed that some of the tie bars sometimes dont line up perfectly with the bolt holes, but I just loosen/remove both sides and reinstall, maybe with a little persuasion to align the holes. They sometimes are only off by 1/16" or so... anything more than that I would be looking for other issues. Unless you're installing them with the bike on its sidestand.

The motor is really only held to the frame by 2 bolts, the big one up front at the front isolator, and the one going sideways through the rear isolator behind the RH peg mount. Withouth those two bolts in place, the motor is not connected to the frame (aside from the tie bars).

Those tie bars are just to limit the lateral motion of the motor, whereas the isolators allow it to move in a lateral and vertical motion. You could also try removing those tie bars one at a time to see if one is causing the excessive vibration.


Double check your homework on this:
1. Are you sure the motor is running smoothly and not misfiring?
2. Are you just not used to or remembering that these things shake quite a bit? You mentioned it had been a year since the bike was off the road. Maybe you forgot how shakey/vibratey this thing is.

 

[Outlaw]

I looked like pretty hard crash. Something could be out of wack or damaged or bent or .....

 

[BuddyB]

I looked like pretty hard crash. Something could be out of wack or damaged or bent or .....

You are right except the bike ran fine between the time I rebuilt it from the crash to when I realized I had a pushrod seal leak (thus the gasket/ring job) can't help but think I did something wrong rotating the motor back up.

 

[BuddyB]

If the isolators are in good shape, you want to loosen the two bolts main bolts for the isolators and removing one of each of the tie bar bolts, giving it a good wiggle around and reattach and retorque the bolts per the spec in the book. It could be that the somehow the motor is twisted in the frame and just needs to realign itself. I'm really reaching for straws on this.

I've noticed that some of the tie bars sometimes dont line up perfectly with the bolt holes, but I just loosen/remove both sides and reinstall, maybe with a little persuasion to align the holes. They sometimes are only off by 1/16" or so... anything more than that I would be looking for other issues. Unless you're installing them with the bike on its sidestand.

The motor is really only held to the frame by 2 bolts, the big one up front at the front isolator, and the one going sideways through the rear isolator behind the RH peg mount. Withouth those two bolts in place, the motor is not connected to the frame (aside from the tie bars).

Those tie bars are just to limit the lateral motion of the motor, whereas the isolators allow it to move in a lateral and vertical motion. You could also try removing those tie bars one at a time to see if one is causing the excessive vibration.


Double check your homework on this:
1. Are you sure the motor is running smoothly and not misfiring?
2. Are you just not used to or remembering that these things shake quite a bit? You mentioned it had been a year since the bike was off the road. Maybe you forgot how shakey/vibratey this thing is.

#1 ya know, that's possible, I use a long neck needle nose to put the rear plug wire on. I'm never positive about that.
#2, like I told outlaw, I have ridden the bike a bit between the crash rebuild and the top end work. Ya, they vibrate a bit but this is actually making my butt numb.:concern:

I just tested pos for covid so I'll have a couple of days out of pocket... But I'll get back to everyone with what I've found. Thanks

 

[BuddyB]

Well, finally felt well enough to work on the bike this morning. I did what 34 had recommended and loosened all of the isolators, and tried to wiggle the motor around jacking it up and down a little, then tightened everything back up. I also tried to double check the rear spark plug wire and it seemed to be okay. I took it down the street and back cause by the time I could take it out, it was 100 degrees. I'll try to get out earl tomorrow morning whilst it's not so hot out. But it did seem better.

Crossing fingers.

 

[BuddyB]

Took the bike out this morning, 30 mile excursion. Bike ran great, though I think the vibration was a bit more than original, my butt and feet didn't seem to be bothered. Also FWIW, I could see things in the mirrors. I'm not sure at this point what to think... But am willing to give it a try. Thanks everyone.

 

[BuddyB]

Well I've given it some time and done a few things. The motor is still running rough... I call it vibration but it's just not smooth. I actually bought a new front isolator thinking maybe mine was hard from age. No dice.

New plugs and new plug wires. No help. Sea foam and carb cleaner abound.

So here is what I have. The bike ran great and I realized I had a push rod o ring leak. Went to fix that and found a rear head gasket leak. replaced gaskets from the jugs up, also honed and replaced rings. No leaks now, vibrating to beat all. pulls very good and idles good but is so damn rough to ride.

Cleared all the codes and it is not throwing any codes with ecm droid. I replaced the 02 sensor with the GM one that is supposed to be the same thing. Brand new.
When I replaced all of the gaskets I replaced the intake gaskets also. I did the brake cleaner test and the motor 'kind of' lowered rpm but not appreciably. So I don't know what to think.

This is a weird thing. My hands are numb after 15 minutes of riding. The thing really scoots but it is so uncomfortable to ride. It was not like this before. My initial thought was that I did something wrong when I rotated the motor down and back up. Now I am wondering if it isn't a motor issue, as in fuel or ecm etc.

I would really appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks