Remus Powerizer VS Doebeck and others

[mrdozer2you]

I want simple and effective;

I have a 06 XB12Ss and only the Jardine now. I'm going to an open airbox set-up so I want to make sure im getting the most from it and not running lean.

A custom re-map is out of the question ( sorry LeFox [sad] ) as I cant find a reliable place to do the Dyno work. I would rather not go with a Race ECM unless I have no other options ( getting my TPS reset from any dealer nearby is like asking them to turn water into wine [confused] )

So I've read about the Remus and Doebeck but am confused between the two. It seems as though the Remus is self adjusting, and the Doebeck has manual adjustments. If someone could help me understand the difference, pros/cons to each that would be great

 

[LeFox]

from what i've heard & read...

remus powerizer:
it's a self adjusting box that connects between ecm & injectors.
i should measure your rpm and the duration of the injection. if the box thinks it's running to lean, it adjusts the duration of the injection puls.
what i don't understand is that there's no measurement of the incomming air or AF ratio what so ever, so how can this little box know you're engine is running lean?
also, it was initially made for the remus exhaust, so...it should work with other exhausts, but it is not optimized for that.

tfi like dobeck:
more or less the same as the remus, but gives you more control, is more precise and is not made for a specific exhaust.
here's a link to the dobeck performace buell support forum: click
just make sure here that you have the newest version since, from what i've read, the older has been having some issues.

also, with both systems, you still need a tps reset and when doing that...you need to disengage the tfi/powerizer.

although i do not understand that in u.s., land of dragraces, hotrods, etc you can't get the ecm remapped
even if you're the 1st, they will backup your excisting settings before getting started and since you are the example, you may be able to get a good nice discount.

 

[shilohsk8]

I didn't know you had to remap the ecm with a dobeck I have talked to a couple of people who have them and they didn't and loved the results. I am really curios about this since I haven't installed mine yet.[confused]

 

[LeFox]

I didn't know you had to remap the ecm with a dobeck I have talked to a couple of people who have them and they didn't and loved the results.

where did you get that?
a tps reset is not the same as a ecm remap

 

[shilohsk8]

Oh, I didn't know that either I just assumed it was the same thing sorry. Is the tps reset something my local buell dealer can do?

 

[typeone]

FYI, the Dobeck TFi doesn't need a TPS reset before use. plug it in, set to base settings, tune as instructed and start riding. after the bike settles in, evaluate performance and continue tuning if needed.

mine worked really well with both flavors of ecm but the 4th POT can be kinda tricky to tune correctly.

 

[LeFox]

Is the tps reset something my local buell dealer can do?

yes, it's a simple procedure that your dealer should be able to do.

FYI, the Dobeck TFi doesn't need a TPS reset before use

yes...i didn't mean before use, but it doesn't exclude never needing one.

i mentioned it because mrdozer2me has trouble finding a dealer that does a good job at it.

 

[typeone]

yes...i didn't mean before use, but it doesn't exclude never needing one.

i mentioned it because mrdozer2me has trouble finding a dealer that does a good job at it.

understood, and i agree. i reset my TPS as regular maintenance. first was using VDSTS now use ECMSpy.

on that note, if your dealer is clueless or charges you more than .5hr labor, id recommend investing in the tools to do it yourself. its so simple to do its ridiculous that dealers give Buellers a hard time.

 

[shilohsk8]

Thanks for the info guys.[up]

 

[mrdozer2you]

Im confused, does the Doebeck self adjust? Or just the Remus? How do I tune the Doebeck if I dont have a Dyno?

 

[typeone]

Im confused, does the Doebeck self adjust? Or just the Remus? How do I tune the Doebeck if I dont have a Dyno?

the TFi does not self adjust. you tune by 'feel' until you can get the bike on a dyno to see whats going on. reading plugs helps too. of course the Buell system is constantly changing so there is some 'self adjusting' going on, but not on the TFi's part.

do not assume a dyno tuner will #1 know what the hell a Buell is and #2 know what the hell a Dobeck Performance TFi will be.

if you want to try one, go for it. it only adds fuel so no worries running too lean. it took me awhile to get to settings that worked for my bike but the throttle response was great, plug color was always great and once on a dyno to check things out, i was in the ballpark.

 

[sinpieces]

You don't need to do the a TPS reset before using a Remus powerizer. I did, but first later on, Honestly i can't say the difference was noticeable.
Though, i did at TPS reset at a dealer and i don't know how "off" the TPS was before they did it either.
I think it was pretty good at that start actually.
I did the TPS because i wanted to see if it could do a further improvement.
The Remus exhaust ideal is quite similar to that of Tiforce, so atleast Tiforce exhaust system works very good with Remus powerizer.
I have had the (dealer mounted) original Buell race kit first. It is not as good as remus + original ecm (+ white wire mod)+ open airbox arrangement (or better f.a.s.t. kit) + tiforce.
This set up is better at low rpm (it runs more even) and also the bike feels more linear and accelerate faster. The primary gearing kit made the bike smoother and more even when driving with a higher gear. It also improved bottom end control and acceleration. There seems to be some problems finding a dealer having sufficent skills for doing the optimal mapping... i heard many having trouble mapping these Buell (XB) ecu's.

HERE IS INFORMATION from REMUS:

The Remus powerizer optimizes the pulses of the stock engine control unit (ECU) controlling the fuel supply through the injectors inside the throttle body. The powerizer is plugged into the wiring harness to the stock connectors operating the injectors by an adapter arrangement. The internal state of the art micro controller of our unit analyses these signals coming out from the stock ecu in real-time and generates, according to engine load and speed by an independent mapping, it's own pulses actuating the injector solenoids. This new actuation scheme works cylinder-selectively guaranteeing an ideal air/fuel ratio for perfect combustion and therby improved engine performance - no matter if cruising in town or racing on track.

 

[mrdozer2you]

HERE IS INFORMATION from REMUS:

Except fo where ti get it Thank you Sini, I figured it was more plug and play than the Doebeck. The Remus will probably suit my needs just fine. Im sure the Doebeck is great but manual tuning....not for me. [sad]

 

[typeone]

Remus Powerizer Fuel Injection Controller - Adrenaline Moto UK

 

[sinpieces]

Regarding the two fuel manipulators, i personally can't see why the Tfi should be bought over the Remus (but that's just me)?
Remus is so easy to use, just on/off - that's it!
It never needs a dyno/bench or anything.
Look an extra time, to assure that all connectors are fitted correct and it should work. Also unscrew the lid at the powerizer and you will find some "internal LED's".
These will show when all is correct (or wrong) by some messages codes.
When the powerizer is connected and put at mode 1 (on), the green led will illuminate for 5 seconds then go out - that is correct fitting.
Also, i know i nag about it, but anyway. Try to pull the white wire out, at the ecm connector harness. It is marked [pin:8] at the ecm connector. (Look carefully and you'll see it)
All this wire does, is sending a blocking signal to the ecm, blocking out the fuel supply in low/mid rpm's.

These companies selling, our "must-have-stuff"... they ought to love these forums. I wonder how much money the get on free commercialists as myself (and others)?

Good luck to all of you!

 

[mick]

Here's a couple of runs I've had done with a powerizer on & off. The bikes a 07XB12STT with a powerizer, stock ecm, open air box, rerouted breathers, K&N air filter & custom made muffler. I'm happy with the outputs but I'm not to sure about the air/fuel mix??? Any suggestions??? Thanks Mick

edit: layout for better view

 

[LeFox]

1. why oh why does your tech use a correction??? next time ask him to set the correction atleast at 0.95 instead of 1.27

2. on the 1st graph you can see that your AF ratio is too rich, especially at 60km/h(? => this should be a rpm axis), in both cases.
everything below 12.5 is definatly too rich.
i would even dare to say that your egine seems to run better without than with the powerizer.
ok, your max power & torque is with the powerizer, but the overall line is better without.

 

[mick]

Hi LeFox, thanks for the excellent feedback.I'll ask him about the correction. What is the correction for? Does it affect output figures? I'm not worried about the output, so I had it dynoed to see how it's running. Looks like I'll take the plunge into ECM spy. Thanks Mick

 

[LeFox]

What is the correction for? Does it affect output figures?

yes it does affect the output figures.

if you would have f.i. 100hp and you set a correction of 1.50 it will display 150hp.
in your case, the correction is 1.27 so without correction (sae 1) your figures would be:
top hp with poweriser / without: 80.905hp / 80.204hp
top torque with poweriser / without: 68.228ft-lbs / 67.921ft-lbs

the correction actually corrects possible losses between crankshaft & rear wheel, which in this case is a theoretical measurement. but why use it instead of the correct measurement at the rear wheel, which is the one that matters.

setting it round 95 will give you a more accurate realtime figure because it will compensate for road friction, weight on motorcycle, wind, etc.

 

[mick]

Thanks LeFox I now have a better understanding of how a dyno works