Just wanted to know if anyone is running Shell Rotella T 15W-40 in their Buell and the results. I currently run Mobil 1 20W-50 V Twin in my 2005 XB9SX (both holes) but have used Rotella in 2 Harley Sportsters in the past with excellent results. I know the viscosity of the Rotella T 15W-40 is a little light for higher temp months compared to the 20W-50 weight oils, but I live in CT so it does not ever get really hot except for a few days in mid summer. Interested in hearing feedback from Rotella users. Thanks!!
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Shell Rotella T 15W-40
- Thread starter keithg78
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go cytocis
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Yes, with good results.
I have run Diesel oils (including Rotella) in all my bikes (including the XB) for years now and have never had an engine wear issue in over 200,000 km (120,000 mi).
I am not brand-loyal so I generally buy whatever happens to be on sale, and Rotella is often the cheapest on the shelf.
Internet Annoyance
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Depends on year of Bike, many if not most modern oils have eliminated most of the Zinc and other components that actually work well for lubricant, the problems are high zinc content can harm O2 sensors and catalytic converters (especially the Cat converters) so the formulas have changed drastically.
Many engine parts have been engineered to compensate, for example many bearing surfaces have better heat treat and surface finishes.
I run mostly Vintage bikes and cars, and they have suffered GREATLY from the modern oils, accelerated wear and cams going flat in short time, mains worn out, bearing failures, cam followers and valve stems,, all going bad well before their time.
So us vintage guys now look carefully at the oil formulas, and personally, I like to use Diesel and Tractor blends such as Delo 400 (chevron) as it has many of the zinc and other additives my old machinery craves. But these blends are not so good for modern machines as i said.
Opinions vary widely on additives to compensate for these lack of lubricating materials.. some swear by certain additives such as the Lucas Oil additives, but im up in the air about this, havent found anything im comfortable with.
So,,, noting many bikes now have 1 O2 sensor,, and now some V twins have multiple 02 sensors, not to mention modern bikes are starting to see Cat converters, Oil recomendations are sensitive and specific.
On some vintage car and MC forums Oil threads can get downright nasty,, and on Brit Iron,, one lasted 3 years,
known as the great Oil war of 98-2001.
My 48 Triumph speedtwin and my 59 Bonnie need a lot of help in the lube department, modern Oils arent so kind to them,
YRMV.
Many engine parts have been engineered to compensate, for example many bearing surfaces have better heat treat and surface finishes.
I run mostly Vintage bikes and cars, and they have suffered GREATLY from the modern oils, accelerated wear and cams going flat in short time, mains worn out, bearing failures, cam followers and valve stems,, all going bad well before their time.
So us vintage guys now look carefully at the oil formulas, and personally, I like to use Diesel and Tractor blends such as Delo 400 (chevron) as it has many of the zinc and other additives my old machinery craves. But these blends are not so good for modern machines as i said.
Opinions vary widely on additives to compensate for these lack of lubricating materials.. some swear by certain additives such as the Lucas Oil additives, but im up in the air about this, havent found anything im comfortable with.
So,,, noting many bikes now have 1 O2 sensor,, and now some V twins have multiple 02 sensors, not to mention modern bikes are starting to see Cat converters, Oil recomendations are sensitive and specific.
On some vintage car and MC forums Oil threads can get downright nasty,, and on Brit Iron,, one lasted 3 years,
known as the great Oil war of 98-2001.
My 48 Triumph speedtwin and my 59 Bonnie need a lot of help in the lube department, modern Oils arent so kind to them,
YRMV.
user_deleted
Well-known member
ahhhhhhhhhh.......an oil thread!
keith: agree with all of the above and with CT temps, i think the 15-40 would be fine. i would NOT use rotella T in your primary/trans fill as i don't believe the rating or additive package compatible with a buell/sportster clutch pack.
keith: agree with all of the above and with CT temps, i think the 15-40 would be fine. i would NOT use rotella T in your primary/trans fill as i don't believe the rating or additive package compatible with a buell/sportster clutch pack.
go cytocis
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The conventional wisdom over on BobIsTheOilGuy is that since 90% of engine wear occurs at start-up, it's better to use oils which are thinner when cold. The operating temperature viscosity is a relatively less important factor in overall engine life.
Using this argument, the Rotella 15w40 is a better choice than the 20w50.
Internet Annoyance
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I have a couple more things to add, Im not a chemist, nor an engineer. But i am a licensed FAA Aircraft mechanic
(A & P), Im also certified to teach certain types of material related to mechanics. I also ran my own shop doing restoration, service and repair of cars and motorcycles.
First of all,,,, some people get hung up on viscosity, and some believe thicker is better to compensate for wear, the oposite is true, FLOW is more important than thickness,, FLOW VOLUME is the key here. NOT PRESSURE. Some people think a high pressure means you have better lube, what it actually means is that Pressure is a indication of resistance and friction. Bearing surfaces benefit from more flow and volume than they do by massive amounts of force (Pressure) being forced in there. If the oil isnt totally dirty, or broken down, then the propertys of Oil will do their job against incredible forces of pressure.
You dont benefit from high pressure or thicker viscosity. Multi grades are neat in that they have multiple characteristics at different temperatures. a 20-50w is a pretty ideal mix for most motorcycle engines.
In V8 chevys,, (which ive built a lot of) the first thing i do is add a Melling High Volume oil pump and a upgraded pump shaft), The small block and BB Chevy has an excellent oil system and needs very little, some blue printing and a few tricks specific to application but its darn good as is. Notice i add a HIGH VOLUME pump, not high pressure. it increases volume and flow by 25-30% over stock, as a side effect pressure goes up a little,
You CAN run oil too fast and quickly across a bearing or heated surface,,,, keep in mind the oil also acts as a coolant, and dissipates the heat, particularly splash on the bottoms of pistons, but in general you cant or wont be able to get too far into that territory on these V twin motors of too much flow unless you use some ridiculous low viscosity like 5W and a re-engineered crazy pump.
One of the problems with mixing high tech engine design with the outdated concept of the old roller bearing connecting rods these V twins use is that the engine has 2 different designs, Modern engines use tighter tolerances, better metal conditions, thinner oils and more flow. Vintage bikes suffer with modern oils. Cams go flat, lifters and cam followers go bad, and cranks fail, but the oddity here is,,,,,,, that crank and forked rod assy,
Old school engines like my BSA Gold stars use a Needle bearing for its rod and crank main as well as a Ball bearing on the timing side and roller bearing on the drive. These bearings dont require high pressure like a shell bearing does, it just needs flow and splash, and a lot of it. In old school race and street singles like the Nortons (Manx, International, ES2,) and BSAs (Empire star, Goldstar, Victor, Starfire) they used to spec a straight mono grade MC specific 50wt, You carefully warmed it up, and off you went. These ils had a way different make up than what is available today. Think Duckhams, ESSO lube, and Castrol,
I tell people the best add on you can do to your bike is a oil pressure gauge, not a idiot light, but a mechanical liquid filled pressure gauge. and put it where you can see it while riding, Add a backup idiot light as well if you like, That gauges tells me everything. It teaches me to warm up the bike properly before i blast down the road,.
On my Nortons and Triumphs start up pressure can be over a 100psi, when cold at 3000 RPM it can average 70 psi, when warmed up properly its at between 30-40 psi, Cold it can idle at 40 psi, but a warmed up or hot engine can be as low as 7-10 psi at tickover (600-700 RPM) which will trigger most idiot lights. British engineers stopped putting a Red idiot light on many British bikes as owners thought something was wrong and panic ensued with that winking red light. What do you think the engine is telling me when its cold and pressure is so high? Its having trouble forcing thick oil to bearing surfaces. do you really want to crack the throttle and flog it?
Im researching the best setup for pressure gauges for these Vtwins and what oils to use. As I said, i use High Zinc tractor and diesel engine ois in my vintage iron, but these V twins are slightly different and complicated by those o2 sensors.. Best thing i can say is clean oil is the best oil. Oils stop working when dirty or the additives wear out,. Oil by itself never really wears out, which is why you should turn it in for recycle.
(A & P), Im also certified to teach certain types of material related to mechanics. I also ran my own shop doing restoration, service and repair of cars and motorcycles.
First of all,,,, some people get hung up on viscosity, and some believe thicker is better to compensate for wear, the oposite is true, FLOW is more important than thickness,, FLOW VOLUME is the key here. NOT PRESSURE. Some people think a high pressure means you have better lube, what it actually means is that Pressure is a indication of resistance and friction. Bearing surfaces benefit from more flow and volume than they do by massive amounts of force (Pressure) being forced in there. If the oil isnt totally dirty, or broken down, then the propertys of Oil will do their job against incredible forces of pressure.
You dont benefit from high pressure or thicker viscosity. Multi grades are neat in that they have multiple characteristics at different temperatures. a 20-50w is a pretty ideal mix for most motorcycle engines.
In V8 chevys,, (which ive built a lot of) the first thing i do is add a Melling High Volume oil pump and a upgraded pump shaft), The small block and BB Chevy has an excellent oil system and needs very little, some blue printing and a few tricks specific to application but its darn good as is. Notice i add a HIGH VOLUME pump, not high pressure. it increases volume and flow by 25-30% over stock, as a side effect pressure goes up a little,
You CAN run oil too fast and quickly across a bearing or heated surface,,,, keep in mind the oil also acts as a coolant, and dissipates the heat, particularly splash on the bottoms of pistons, but in general you cant or wont be able to get too far into that territory on these V twin motors of too much flow unless you use some ridiculous low viscosity like 5W and a re-engineered crazy pump.
One of the problems with mixing high tech engine design with the outdated concept of the old roller bearing connecting rods these V twins use is that the engine has 2 different designs, Modern engines use tighter tolerances, better metal conditions, thinner oils and more flow. Vintage bikes suffer with modern oils. Cams go flat, lifters and cam followers go bad, and cranks fail, but the oddity here is,,,,,,, that crank and forked rod assy,
Old school engines like my BSA Gold stars use a Needle bearing for its rod and crank main as well as a Ball bearing on the timing side and roller bearing on the drive. These bearings dont require high pressure like a shell bearing does, it just needs flow and splash, and a lot of it. In old school race and street singles like the Nortons (Manx, International, ES2,) and BSAs (Empire star, Goldstar, Victor, Starfire) they used to spec a straight mono grade MC specific 50wt, You carefully warmed it up, and off you went. These ils had a way different make up than what is available today. Think Duckhams, ESSO lube, and Castrol,
I tell people the best add on you can do to your bike is a oil pressure gauge, not a idiot light, but a mechanical liquid filled pressure gauge. and put it where you can see it while riding, Add a backup idiot light as well if you like, That gauges tells me everything. It teaches me to warm up the bike properly before i blast down the road,.
On my Nortons and Triumphs start up pressure can be over a 100psi, when cold at 3000 RPM it can average 70 psi, when warmed up properly its at between 30-40 psi, Cold it can idle at 40 psi, but a warmed up or hot engine can be as low as 7-10 psi at tickover (600-700 RPM) which will trigger most idiot lights. British engineers stopped putting a Red idiot light on many British bikes as owners thought something was wrong and panic ensued with that winking red light. What do you think the engine is telling me when its cold and pressure is so high? Its having trouble forcing thick oil to bearing surfaces. do you really want to crack the throttle and flog it?
Im researching the best setup for pressure gauges for these Vtwins and what oils to use. As I said, i use High Zinc tractor and diesel engine ois in my vintage iron, but these V twins are slightly different and complicated by those o2 sensors.. Best thing i can say is clean oil is the best oil. Oils stop working when dirty or the additives wear out,. Oil by itself never really wears out, which is why you should turn it in for recycle.
Internet Annoyance
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- Feb 20, 2013
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Warm up is a funny thing with these all alloy V twins, Im used to old Iron head sportsters when i was last into Harley engines, or Pans or Shovel heads. But these moden V twins are wonders of engineering, with an all aloy cyl head and alloy cylinder (with cast iron liner) Its harder to build them, harder to engineer torque values for the fasteners, and they heat up and expand in unpredictable ways compare to those old iron engines. All without leaking too much. The best i can figure is warm them up to a nice warm to the touch cylinder and then take off slowly and gently in RPMs until the engine oils catch up the rest of the motor.
Synthetics like Mobil 1 were a scary thing when they came out, I know of a number of people who claimed Oil based engine failures in the 1980s and early 1990s. And some engines i saw clearly did have oil failures but i still cant tell you if a sysnthetic was to blame, However, Here in Oregon we have the Indy car race series comes to town or at least used to. I spent a lot of time at these races and promo appearances by the teams in the area back in the early 1990s, Drivers were okay, but i liked to talk to the crews who maintained these cars. I heard much of the same from other crew chiefs but the turning point for me was one day i spoke at length to a guy who was engine builder for Bobby Rahals team (might have been Penske Racing). He told me they tested the synthetics in the race engines, first time the pressures were WAY low,,,, they shut down and called the product reps, The product reps had the oil company engineers call back and say,, "Thats Normal run it". we are talking engines worth up to $800,000 each. (Chevy Ilmores and the Toyota Indy engines were the hot thing at the time)
The Oil companys said,,,,,, "If you have a oil related engine failure on our engine, we will pay you for the engines"
End of discussion, The oils worked, my only hitch to this story was i cant recall which brand synthetic. Mobil 1? But at that time the team car hauler, and all the cars were yellow with Penzoil logos, and i dont recall a Penzoil synthetic. unrelated to the oil thread is I learned a lot about the carbon fiber tech and ceramic coatings as well as Kevlar brake and clutch friction materials. One guy I talked ot had hot rods, a vintage corvette and a Plymouth 'Cuda and he made up Kevlar Brake pads for them and played with the compositions for street cars. Amazing stuff,
Synthetics like Mobil 1 were a scary thing when they came out, I know of a number of people who claimed Oil based engine failures in the 1980s and early 1990s. And some engines i saw clearly did have oil failures but i still cant tell you if a sysnthetic was to blame, However, Here in Oregon we have the Indy car race series comes to town or at least used to. I spent a lot of time at these races and promo appearances by the teams in the area back in the early 1990s, Drivers were okay, but i liked to talk to the crews who maintained these cars. I heard much of the same from other crew chiefs but the turning point for me was one day i spoke at length to a guy who was engine builder for Bobby Rahals team (might have been Penske Racing). He told me they tested the synthetics in the race engines, first time the pressures were WAY low,,,, they shut down and called the product reps, The product reps had the oil company engineers call back and say,, "Thats Normal run it". we are talking engines worth up to $800,000 each. (Chevy Ilmores and the Toyota Indy engines were the hot thing at the time)
The Oil companys said,,,,,, "If you have a oil related engine failure on our engine, we will pay you for the engines"
End of discussion, The oils worked, my only hitch to this story was i cant recall which brand synthetic. Mobil 1? But at that time the team car hauler, and all the cars were yellow with Penzoil logos, and i dont recall a Penzoil synthetic. unrelated to the oil thread is I learned a lot about the carbon fiber tech and ceramic coatings as well as Kevlar brake and clutch friction materials. One guy I talked ot had hot rods, a vintage corvette and a Plymouth 'Cuda and he made up Kevlar Brake pads for them and played with the compositions for street cars. Amazing stuff,
Thanks for all the great information from everyone. I have always been a fan of Rotella and feel it is a very underrated product. I have used it with excellent results in the past with Harleys and I think I will give it a try in the Buell. The synthetics may last longer but I change my oil every 2500 miles or every season (whichever comes first). I believe changing the oil and filter more frequently is far better and more important than what type/brand of oil is being used (within reason). Rotella also is JASO MA rated so it can be used in wet clutches (many import bike owners use Rotella religiously in their engines which share oil with their clutches).
"Internet Annoyance": Yes, as far as Zinc (and all other elements in ZDDP) ruining CAT converters and oxygen sensors, you are very correct. That is the primary reason just about all automotive engine oils have reduced their zinc content levels to around 600ppm, and this new oil without high levels of zinc will in fact ruin a flat tappet cam very quickly on an older engine. Both Mobil 1 and Amsoil have VERY high amounts of Zinc (around 1700 PPM) which make them great to use on an old V-twin without modern sensors but the ZDDP will ruin these sensors in the long run. I notice a lot of Buell owners have had to change their oxygen sensors and I am beginning to wonder if this is a result of running oils high in Zinc (ZDDP) like Mobil 1 and Amsoil. These synthetics with increase anti-wear additives are great for race engines and engines with older technology, but may not be so great to use with modern electronics and sensors. I guess there is more to consider in choosing an oil than just how well the oil will hold up and prevent friction. With all the modern technology going into motorcycle engines these days, an oil must be chosen that will not harm catalytic converters, oxygen sensors, and other computer sensors.
"Internet Annoyance": Yes, as far as Zinc (and all other elements in ZDDP) ruining CAT converters and oxygen sensors, you are very correct. That is the primary reason just about all automotive engine oils have reduced their zinc content levels to around 600ppm, and this new oil without high levels of zinc will in fact ruin a flat tappet cam very quickly on an older engine. Both Mobil 1 and Amsoil have VERY high amounts of Zinc (around 1700 PPM) which make them great to use on an old V-twin without modern sensors but the ZDDP will ruin these sensors in the long run. I notice a lot of Buell owners have had to change their oxygen sensors and I am beginning to wonder if this is a result of running oils high in Zinc (ZDDP) like Mobil 1 and Amsoil. These synthetics with increase anti-wear additives are great for race engines and engines with older technology, but may not be so great to use with modern electronics and sensors. I guess there is more to consider in choosing an oil than just how well the oil will hold up and prevent friction. With all the modern technology going into motorcycle engines these days, an oil must be chosen that will not harm catalytic converters, oxygen sensors, and other computer sensors.
