Spun Push Rod Bushings in the Case on 03' XB9S

[motomanfan]

I bought my 03' xb9s about 6 months ago with 3k miles on it. I put another 3K on it since then. On my last ride, I started hearing a minor rattle sound coming from the motor. It ran fine, but I took it to the Buell shop for a look. They say the bushings in the front push rods came loose and scored the case. Their first advice was that unless I did the work myself, the cost to repair it with new cases and labor would be more than it was worth. When I went to pick it up, the service tech says that the cases arent as bad as he thought. He suggested boring out the case where the push rod is housed and replace the OEM bushings with larger diameter race bushings.

Anyone have any knowledge about this procedure?

 

[user_deleted]

anything's possible but i gotta tell ya that i've been around these sportster style evo motors since 1986 when they first appeared and have never even seen or heard of this happening. has yours led a hard life? just wondering.

 

[motomanfan]

Not a rough life. Oils changed regulary and again; it ONLY HAD 6K MILES. Not sure what caused this. Dont have alot of confidence in the shop either. I thought it was strange how the original story was doom and gloom. Then it went to being not that bad. The case does not look damaged to me. Think I'll find a second opinion somewhere. Have you heard of placing larger bushings in it? Wonder what the plus and negatives would be. I imagine that you still have the labor costs to tear it down, split the cases, the put it all back together again, though..

 

[christianmb]

WTH is a pushrod bushing? I've been into my '07 and there are no bushing around the pushrods.

 

[user_deleted]

moto: what christian said. see link for pic reference. all jap overhead cam motors run the cams in bushing-less aluminum towers that are cast into the head. the oil film acts as a bushing if you will. on a buell/sportster based twin the tappets/lifters run in the aluminum case bore and i've never seen any of them with a bushing pressed into the case hole. that is what threw me off in your post. are you sure the mechanic isn't referring to one of the 8 cam bushings? there are 2 per cam...1 inboard in the case and 1 outboard in the cam cover.

http://hammerperf.com/ttxlcaminstall.shtml#disassembly

 

[EricZ]

There are no bushings where the pushrods or lifters ride. There are bushings that support the camshafts. Those have been known to spin in the case. There really is (usually) no cost effective repair. Buying a used motor or case set is the typical fix.

Here is a picture of a Buell Race case I had. You can see the 4 bronze cam bushings and little steel pins that were added between the bushings and the case to prevent the bushings from spinning. It's usually big cams and/or a stiff valvetrain that helps it happen. It has happened on several stock motors, like yours, too.

 

[motomanfan]

Eric- That must be what the mechanic was referring to. Great pic. Helps me understand the situation better, too.

 

[onelogue]

EricZ great reference pic .... I was looking for a picture and you have the perfect one. [up]

 

[thewanmanrules]

Nice Pic and description... Is there a certain noise in the Cases this make... I would like to know what made the tech think this has happened...

 

[motomanfan]

Is there a certain noise in the Cases this make... I would like to know what made the tech think this has happened...

There was a rattling sound coming from that section of the motor. He pulled the motor apart just enough to find the problem.

EricZ- You have not heard of the possiblity of boring the case to fit the larger diameter bushings?

 

[EricZ]

I have only heard of some folks with the idea but I have never known it to have been done. Some people have discussed the possibility of replacing the bushings with roller bearings like the Evo and Twin Cam motors have. It would require a good bit of development and testing to see what would work well.

 

[puggi]

I've got an old Ironhead Sporty that I couldn't get the timing right and actually kept breaking advance weight springs (gotta love mechanical advance). I pulled the cam cover and the cam bushings were so sloppy in the cover that I could rock them back and forth. Bushings in the case were still tight so I ended up buying .005" oversized bushings for the cam cover.

 

[motomanfan]

Update: After reading everyones comments and getting a better understanding of what the original mechanic said; I started to see that there was no possible way that he could have seen the bushings to come to that conclusion. Why? Because he never took the side cover off. All he did was pull the head on the front Cylinder and look down the hole where the push rod goes. I had a Harley mechanic look at it and he confirmed there was no way to check the cam bushings without removing the cover. There is a recent thread going on where the OP is hearing noise that he cant account for too. It was concluded that the noise he is hearing is normal for our motor. I listened to the audio that he posted up and mine sounds just like it. So I think that the shop full of crap...

 

[user_deleted]

looking down "the hole" does nothing. the case and sidecover bushings would be blocked by the pushrods and by the lifters. full of crap sounds correct. keep in mind that these motors of ours date back to 1957 architecturally speaking. and there are production tolerance differences between motors, how they were run in, usage, heat cycling, and other items that can lead to engine clatter or lack thereof. i call it character.

 

[WIGGLE2]

Lunatic:
YOU are the character!!

 

[motomanfan]

Lunatic- I called the original mechanic to question them one last time and to relay what the other shops have conveyed. I did not get to speak to the tech that did the work. Just the service manager. He said that the tech could most likely see the bushings with a mirror down the hole by removing the push rods and moving the lifters. The other shops say that is not correct. Removing the side case is the ONLY way to verify it. I beleive the other 2 shops.

 

[snrusnak]

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter because if there is a bad cam bushing the engine is shot, so just ride it....time will tell.

 

[motomanfan]

Update:

I came across a deal that I couldnt refuse on Aprilia Tuono I have wanted for a while and pulled the trigger. I sold the Buell to a mechanic who confirmed that the cam bushings and the case is fine. He put it back together and heard the rattle noise I told him about. He is going to tear apart to find the source. The good news is that he dosent have to pay for cases. I am very interested to see what he finds. I wont be recommending Dudley Perkins in S.F. as a reliable place to repair a Buell.
Sad to see the Buell go. It was one of the most fun bikes I've ever owned.

 

[vance580]

Just saw this and that shop is really full of it. If they are going to check the bushings and do it by pulling the push rods they would have to drop the engine to pull the rockers and pull out the push rods and they couldn't get to the bushings by moving the lifters. The lifters would have to be removed since the bushings are below them from the top. It would of been a thousand times easier just to pull the timing cover and pull the cam gears. Yea definitely dont recommend that shop.
This is what it would look like after pulling the timing cover.

And then they would have access to the bushings.

As you can see the lifters are above the bushings so they would have to be lifted up and out to get anything down there to look at them. This cant be done without removing the push rod covers which would require the jugs to be removed.