Still no fire in front jug... About done with it

[mtnmason]

'07 12R – 18,000 mi.

I'll sum it up as briefly as possible:

Bike was last on the road Nov '14. When last running it exhibited signs of a bad CPS. Winterized it, didn't get back to it until summer '15. Tested the coil – it's good (didn't have oscilliscope for CPS). Went ahead and got new plugs. Still no fire in front cyl. Got really busy and didn't get around to buying/installing new CPS until Oct '15.

Last Nov. - new CPS is on. Fires right up! It was nasty that day so I let it idle in the garage until fan kicked on. Figured I'd get back to it when I was off work the next week, change the oil and RIDE OUT!...

Nope. Get back to it a week later and no fire up front. Went thru all the connectors. Found that the 77 was burnt up, smashed myself in the head with a hammer for not checking it before I got the CPS.

Last month I replaced the 77 with splicer reducers, threw a spankin' new OEM battery in, re-connected EVERYTHING – coil leads, plug wires, injector leads, etc. Hit the button anxiously expecting to get the ol' potato-potato-potato... Still no fire in the front jug.


ECMSPY is not allowing me to run diagnostics. It's telling me I must 'go off line'. WTF is that all about? I hate computers. The reason I figured it was the CPS originally was because the front plug sparked when running a test (being told to spark by ECM instead of CPS). I took the plug out and grounded it to the jug – no spark when hitting starter.


My only guess at this point is a faulty injector. She hasn't been ridden in well over a year which should be reason enough to go ahead and sell. I clearly don't have the time to work through a thus far unsolvable issue.

I understand that if ALL of the ignition components on an XB aren't 100% correct, you'll have issues. The plug wires are about 5 years old and have been repeatedly taken on and off through this process, so I'll go ahead and replace them. Never looked into a new injector and hoping that isn't the prob.


If anyone has any insight, I would be most grateful.

Happy St. Patty's and Slainte!

 

[Chicknstripn]

Let us know what happens when you replace those plug wires. Sounds like something is wrong with either the plug wire or the coil at the front cylinder.
Have you checked your timing? You might want to perform a static timing check as well. Especially considering the fact that you've replaced the CPS.
Coil issues aren't very common but it is Buell. I wouldn't out rule out anything.
Good luck!

 

[user_deleted]

do this one important step before cutting it up for scrap("about done with it"): with fresh fuel and run switch off...turn on ignition switch, then red run switch, then wait for CEL to extinguish, and now crank to start. combustion in rear cylinder and not front? stop there. remove front spark plug. is it dry? you have a fuel delivery problem. is it moist with fuel? you have an ignition problem. according to your post you replaced components last fall and all was fine though you did not ride it...just prolonged idling. several months recurrence of same symptom. whatever it is i can assure you it's minor.

 

[mtnmason]

Lunatic - Thats the one thing I haven't done - fresh fuel. I thought you were always supposed to wait for CEL to burn out. Haven't taken the plug out since the last time it fully cranked. It was getting fuel.

Chikn - High Point? I'm over here just west of Hillsborough

Thanks for the input

 

[user_deleted]

I thought you were always supposed to wait for CEL to burn out.

indeed. that's what i said.

 

[nynor]

sounds like you may have a stuck injector (long storage = bad fuel). there is a local shop, here, that will rebuild injectors for about $15 each. it seems you are in PA, so i imagine there are shops that do the same thing there.

test as above and see if the plug is dry. if so, a stuck injector may be the issue.

 

[mtnmason]

Thanks all for the input. Definitely not an injector issue - finally got around to pulling plugs after several attempted starts (no fire in the rear this time either). They're fouled and need replacing. With throw in new plug wires as well (anyone had any luck with aftermarket wires?).

Haven't tried to get ECMSPY to work again. Time is limited right now.

Is there a quick option for draining the tank? I lost my manual a few years back in a move and never replaced.

If fresh fuel, new plugs and wires don't do it... I think it's going to become someone else's issue to work through.

 

[UMDterp13]

I'd take it

 

[user_deleted]

Thanks all for the input. Definitely not an injector issue - finally got around to pulling plugs after several attempted starts (no fire in the rear this time either). They're fouled and need replacing. With throw in new plug wires as well (anyone had any luck with aftermarket wires?).

Haven't tried to get ECMSPY to work again. Time is limited right now.

Is there a quick option for draining the tank? I lost my manual a few years back in a move and never replaced.

If fresh fuel, new plugs and wires don't do it... I think it's going to become someone else's issue to work through.

OEM plug wire set works the best and fit correctly. there's no margin for error in the close confines from coil to spark plugs.
look at bottom left rear of your frame. see where the fuel pump housing bolts into the frame assembly? see the large 9/16th inch hex nut? that is the tank drain.

 

[Mope]

Honestly, I'd go with a $4 harbor freight fluid pump instead of pulling the pump and draining the frame as long as you're hearing a good fuel pump priming before 'run'. Get as much old fuel out as possible and put clean fuel in.
Sounds like a coil/plug wire issue to me now that the rear is cutting out too (assuming you've been in there wiggling **** around and you've got wet plugs).

 

[Chicknstripn]

http://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?49748-simple-no-mess-funnel-for-draining-XB-fuel-tanks

Check out the above link.
BTW you don't have to pull the pump. Follow lunatics advice.
If you're still not sure what to do look up "Buell XB how to drain fuel pump". That should give you a good idea how to drain the tank

 

[mtnmason]

Thanks again to everyone for the input. I'm working twelve hr shifts thru Friday (with an hour commute to boot) so no chance I'll get to it before the weekend.

 

[cjmech]

My 04 9R did this years ago. I was deployed to Iraq for 12 months and my wife at the time would go and start the bike once or twice a month and let it run till the fans came on. About 10 months of this it stopped starting... I got home and pulled the plugs and they were fuel fouled. Torched them and cleaned them up and it was good to go.

This last summer my 07 12R did something similar after a tuning session on the dyno. It just dropped the front cylinder for no reason... I went thru everything and couldnt figure out what was wrong. Took it back to the dyno shop and put the stock map back in and wala front cylinder was live...

Maybe some of this will help you get your bike back on the road.

 

[mtnmason]

Holy ****. Ya'll wanna hear a funny story?

So the plug wires came last week from ironmachine. com

(PSA - avoid these. Price and shipping were good and I'd buy from them again but these plugs were 10x harder to get on than OEM. With the plug out and holding it and the wire close to my chest, I had to exert considerable force to snap it on. Instead of going in and loosening the connector with something I went ahead and installed the front plug with the wire already attached. You know the type of thread pitch/length on plugs so imagine what a PITA that was. The rear was easy since you can push down directly from the top unlike the front)

Friday night I drained the fuel - it came out looking like bloody urine (sorry, nothing else came to mind to compare the color, prob the sta-bil). New fuel in, new plugs and wires in, hit the switch... nothing. Wasn't even attempting to turn. I figures "well, I drained all the fuel and primed the injectors repeatedly hoping to purge the old stuff, so keep trying". Still nothing.

I left it feeling ultimately defeated and proceeded to go heavy on the adult bevs (it was friday night, after all). In my insobriety I even went so far as to write up an ad for it. I began trying to accept that my girlfriend of the last 5 years and I would never dance together again. It was undoubtedly the lowest point in my life as it relates to motorcycles. I decided that I would go ahead and start working on the old Yamaha while trying to sell Scorpion Woman. The dejection was unbearable.

I awoke saturday a.m. with a ton of farm work to do. Figured I'd hit the starter again not expecting any different results. Same thing - nothing. A few hours later it was time for lunch and as I walked by the bike I noticed one of my pocket knives lying by some tools on the right side of the bike that was close to the wall. As I stooped down between the bike and the wall to pick up the knife I realized that I hadn't reconnected everything in the cluster fore of the drive pulley! I had disconnected them on friday night to hit them with some electronics cleaner and never connected them after they'd dried out!

I scrambled to plug in the connectors thinking "holy ****, holy ****, I can't believe it, what an idiot". I hit the starter and with a little cough and hesitation she fired! I was beside myself.

Needless to say, a BUNCH of farm work ended up not getting done this weekend. We did about 40-50 miles saturday evening after the oil change. She's in dire need of a tps reset (maybe ECMspy will work this time) and a GOOD cleaning but after a year of separation WE'RE BACK!!!

I'm still convinced that the CPS I replaced was bad. It was exhibiting the exact symptoms of such failure as I've read on here that other riders have posted about. Either way, I'm not going out and buying an oscilliscope and reconnecting the old one to find out. When you're finally back on the road not much else matters.

Thanks for the input again; happy and safe riding to everyone this season.

 

[mrlogix]

but after a year of separation WE'RE BACK!!!

another happy ending.

Chickn and Lunatic, one day the forum powers that be will figure out a better way to fix the rep points. Guess I will have to keep track on my own until then. +1

 

[user_deleted]

but after a year of separation WE'RE BACK!!!

another happy ending.

Chickn and Lunatic, one day the forum powers that be will figure out a better way to fix the rep points. Guess I will have to keep track on my own until then. +1

thanks for that john.:up:

 

[mtnmason]

Yea, I thought you were able to give rep points or thanks on here. This is the same setup as a gun forum I frequent where there is a "thank this post" option. I would pay it forward and try to help out someone seeking advice on here, but seeing as how I can't even remember to plug in a bunch of f@%$& connectors...

 

[sandman3577]

i had a very similar problem/went around in a circle till someone on here told me to try a differant ecm and low and behold i had fire in both cylinders no check light nothing nada and that was 1500 miles ago/just borrow one and give it a try/some one here said if pinn 77 fries it can cook the ecm.

 

[Chicknstripn]

Mr logix I appreciate the accolades!
Giving a helping hand is what this joint is suppose to be all about!
And you never know how many people will read this and then because they read it they will double check all their simple connections before trying to restart a bike they've been working on.
Every post helps someone in some way shape or form.