Taking Corners Help!

[Jfletch]

Good morning/evening all,

I am posting from Afghanistan at the moment, so I hope all is well back in the states. I have a quick question. I have this mental block where when I am taking corners I am really hesitant to lean the bike over for fear of the back end slipping out from beneath me. I have been riding a few years but still have this issue. Does anyone have any recommendations for how to combat this? I read everywhere that Buell's are the best in the twisties, so I want to be able to join in the fun I just have this hurdle to get over. Help!

 

[Alien]

Years ago when I was a noob, this was a problem I dealt with personally.

Try making some suspension adjustments that will make the bike feel more stable to you.

On dry/clean pavement with good tires, you'd have to be doing something seriously wrong (or seriously right) to break traction on either tire.

Study the physics of motorcycling and have faith in yourself, the bike and your tires.

And if possible, try to get some seat time on a dirtbike where sliding around is the norm. That may make you feel more comfortable on the street.

 

[konarider94]

I was going to say adjust the suspension as well. Good information in the below link.
http://steveturnbull.co.uk/buell/thexbpages/xbhandling.htm

Make sure your tires are inflated properly. 36 psi front 38 psi rear

After that just learning the proper technique will help. Keith code twist of the wrist vol 2 is a pretty good one to watch. Kind of corny but some good information.

 

[Fatty SS]

Check out Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II. It's available in book and DVD format, both are valuable resources. Where will you be living when you return to the states? I can help you track down an advanced riding school in your area.

Everybody has advice to give, but take it like anything else you read on the internet. Find a recognized advanced riding school and get out there! I learned more in 8 hours at my first ARS day than I did in the 5 years of street riding before it.

There's no replacement for hands on education from a qualified professional.

 

[Enemy Zero]

^[up]

all great info and very well stated. #1 is get the suspension set to you. That makes the whole world of difference. #2 is on any moderately maintained road with good tires with proper inflation, the bike will grip and work as intended. As long as you are doing things even close to right and conditions are good the bike will continue to have contact patch and grip. You have to be able to trust your tires and feel comfortable in your abilities. The bike wants to stay up and working properly.

Most definitely study the physics of motorcycling. Everyone should take a class and keep taking classes to continue their learning. You can always learn something more and every day on a motorcycle is another day to practice and continue learning the craft.

 

[WIGGLE2]

I have a book I bought a bunch of years ago as well. "Sportbike Riding Techniques" I believe it's called. I THINK Peter Egan wrote it. ( a journalist, ex-racer and all around knowledgable rider). It has LOTS of COOL info. From the basic physics of it all, to braking, throttle control....all that. It all must work together to ride more 'aggressively'. Countersteering.....I WAS doing this, and never really knew it, but once I learned HOW to do it, it really started to open things up for me. Any good book store should have one. (Barnes & Noble).

 

[Jfletch]

I appreciate all the insight! I will be headed back to northern texas upon completion of my deployment. Then back to California in a couple years. How do I know what is best suited for my suspension?

 

[Jfletch]

I do feel like my suspension is pretty firm. I weigh 185 pounds and the bike doesnt budge much when i sit down. Yall think adjusting it to allow more rise and fall would be best? Allowng the bike to drop into the turn?

 

[Fatty SS]

For suspension settings, check your owners manual for recommended settings based on riders weight. If you don't have one, I can scan the chart for you and post it here.

Check out Lone Star Track Days, they offer advanced education during track days.

 

[jetlee]

I don't see it mentioned above, but what really helped me was buying tires that had a reputation for being sticky at the steepest of lean angles.

The tires, along with some suspension fiddling...brought the issue down to myself; I knew my bike was 10x's more capable than I was.

I went to a series of curves and corners that I knew very very well back/forth and just practiced, every few days for a week or so until I got comfortable in my own skin. Someone also told me that under-construction subdivisions are nice to play in, if the roads are clean; they weren't lying, that was fun and I still do it on occasion.

 

[konarider94]

How do I know what is best suited for my suspension?

check out that link i posted above. There are charts based on weight. The one is right out of the manual and the other is "Aggressive" start with either one of those and make small adjustments based on feedback and the desired result. There is a little bit of a guide on that page for a better ride or a bit more steering quickness.

 

[go cytocis]

It may be obvious to state that lean angle is in proportion the speed with which any given curve is taken. Increse your speed & you'll increase your lean angle.

As mentioned above, suspension set up & tires will greatly assist. Something I've not seen suggested yet however is the rider's focus. Keeping your eyes deep into the apex of the curve will allow you to carry speed much more confidently. Also, try counter steering with your feet as well as your arms for extra control over the bike in corners.

 

[Fatty SS]

Your feet don't steer the bike, your hands do. They address myths like that in the first few minutes of Twist of the Wrist II video. A guy stands on his bike with all his weight on one peg and it barely veers off course. Yet counter steering with one finger creates instant direction changes.

Most advanced riding schools will run you around $100 for an 8 hour day. In addition to being the fastest way to *correctly* build skills (and confidence) under the guidance of licensed racers and other riding experts, it's also a ridiculous amount of fun. I promise you, $100 can't buy you more fun on your bike than an advanced riding school.

So, to recap: set your suspension to the factory recommended settings for your weight (as a starting point), make sure you have good tires and that they're inflated properly, and then go to school. Think of it this way: no matter how skilled you may have been when you enlisted, the military didn't send you into the field without any professional education/training.

 

[snrusnak]

I'm far from a great rider but I corner ok and I will say tires definitely have a massive effect on rider comfort with lean angle. When I first got my buell it had the stock diablo's and they were not sticky at all. I had trouble leaning hard at all. I had probably 1"+ chicken strips and a few times it would start sliding a little at mild lean angles. I then went with the pilot powers and now I can comfortably lean the bike over all the way to the edge of the tire(like I could on my last bike). I was pretty shocked at what a difference the tires made, all else equal.

 

[go cytocis]

Your feet don't steer the bike, your hands do

Try riding dual sport style and you'll find otherwise. The technique does translate to the street.

 

[jetlee]

Your feet don't steer the bike, your hands do. They address myths like that in the first few minutes of Twist of the Wrist II video. A guy stands on his bike with all his weight on one peg and it barely veers off course.

When I'm riding down the road and take my hands off the bars, for whatever reason, I steer the bike by shifting weight between the pegs. I can push left and lean right...bike goes left. Push right and lean right, bike goes right.

My point is, that without input to the bars, you DO steer the bike with your feet.

When cornering deep, you should be pushing your weight on the outer peg; the inner peg will induce a lowside.

http://rideapart.com/2013/04/how-to-get-your-knee-down/

 

[Fatty SS]

Don't take my word for it, this is straight from Keith Code. He is widely considered to be a top expert in sport motorcycling.

http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php

Shifting your weight around, loading pegs, hanging off, etc all have very, very little effect on steering. Hanging off is done to reduce lean angle, not to aid the function of steering. Moving around on the bike might veer it off course, but it doesn't steer you.

A tiny input of counter steer will have your bike leaned over instantly. Any other 'inputs' do not steer your bike. Btw, leaning left with your hands off the bars turns you left because the bike counter steers itself when you lean it. Seriously, watch Twist of the Wrist, this is all explained in great detail using a bike with visual aids installed so that you can see exactly what it's doing. Your pegs aren't steering the bike, it's counter steering itself. So again, your feet don't steer. Your hands do.

 

[jetlee]

Do you even ride?

Take your hands off the bars. Push your weight down on your right foot and lean to the left. What direction does your bike go?

Don't post back what you THINK it will do, get your happy ass out there and DO IT.

 

[go cytocis]

your feet don't steer. Your hands do

I’m no pro racer, but I have taken my share of advanced rider training, both on/off road, & I’ve done a few track days. If I learned nothing else from it all, it’s to be skeptical of ‘either/or’ dichotomies.

This old debate about whether cornering is either an arm, or a leg, exercise overlooks the fact that it can actually be both. There's no formula. Each rider must try what works for them & develop their own technique accordingly. Watch 5 minutes of any GP or WSBK race and you’ll see a broad spectrum of techniques all being used to get around the track at relatively the same speed.

I’m not advocating that the OP take their hands off the bars completely & corner exclusively with their feet. Rather I’m suggesting they try engaging their feet in the act of cornering to augment their handlebar input to see if it works for them. If so, it can be added to their repertoire of techniques. If not, they can forget I even mentioned it.

I know who Keith Code is, I have riding buddies who’ve trained under him, & I have no end of respect for him. All I know I can personally get around a track faster with my feet engaged, rather than just limply draped over the pegs.

 

[Fatty SS]

Go cytosis, I think we're on the same page, and misreading each other. I didn't mean to insinuate that your feet have no input on the bike at all, merely that your hands do the steering work. Your feet have plenty of jobs to do on the bike. My appologies for misunderstanding your point as well.

Jetlee - if you read my posts, I said a couple times that weighting one peg will alter the bike's direction. I have to disagree with you that this action could be considered a genuine steering input. Lazily drifting off course while standing on one peg is *not* steering. Can you *influence* the bike from the pegs? Absolutely. Can you *steer* the bike from the pegs. No.

To the OP: please disregard all of the crappy advice you get online (including mine). Go to a reputable advanced riding school where you can recieve hands on training, in person, from a professional that can tailor your lessons to your level of experience, skill and knowledge. Any advice you get from the rest of us is worth exactly what you're paying for it.

You're a soldier, I'm sure you can relate to the difference between the training you received from the military and all of the bs floating around in self diffence and gun forums. If you want great results, seek great teachers.