XB9S '03 Diagnostic assistance - erratic running seemingly temp related

[CrashBurnFly]

2003 XB9s 8k miles, Buell race ECU and exhaust - otherwise standard and been running perfectly for years. In England so air temp is 10-20c. I have been riding bikes with carbs for 30 years and hopefully people can advise on this issue as I suspect a knowledge of how the ECU takes input from sensors etc may be key to solving my issue. Symptoms:
1, Until a few months ago it would start instantly from cold without touching the throttle - then it needed the throttle opening a little before it would fire up - but after that ran OK. If you stopped it seconds after first starting it and then it would restart instantly without needing to touch throttle.
2, The first symptom remained and then as warms up (says 10 mins into a ride) reluctant to take normal/moderate/large rapid opening of throttle with hesitancy and flatness like either being choked or ignition timing out. Will accelerate if throttle opened very slowly, but not past 5.5k Then if you stop bike and leave for a while - 10 mins plus it runs much worse - starts on 1 cylinder and then takes a few minutes of riding before other cylinder starts. This leads me to think the heat of the stationary engine is "soaking" into the faulty item making it worse - but after 10 mins riding the passing air has cooled it down enough to let it function well enough for both cylinders to run - but same flatness/hesitancy. Occasionally after very gently opening the throttle for a while it will then take larger throttle openings without the hesitancy/choking.
Initial thoughts pointed to intake seals. they were fine with no leaks and put in new ones and same issues remain. I have read through many old postings, but cannot see same scenario.
It could be caused by many things - sympton 2 makes me think either the TPS or coil as they sit in a prime spot for heat soak and would cool with bike moving - but what does the combined wisdom of this group think?
I do not have a working ECMSpy.

 

[user_deleted]

I do not have a working ECMSpy.

that you WILL need or something similar to access your ecm.
you need to run diagnostics along with finding your historical fault codes. trust me....you have quite a few.
all XB coils are dual-fire meaning both plugs lit off whether on compression or exhaust stroke. doubtful it is a faulty coil but you'll never know till you access your ecm as i stated above.
intermittent loss of combustion ignition to 1 cylinder always spark related and typically failing plug wire. XB wires live in a very hostile environment and yours are 14 years old.
cantankerous no-throttle input cold-start stalling/erratic starting symptoms classic TPS reset required OR unit failing. again....ecmspy required or similar access method.

 

[CrashBurnFly]

Ideally looking for guidance as to most likely cause from experience of others or simple non ECMspy approaches.

I have installed ECMspy onto 2 laptops and have bought 2 cables but after 10+ hours wasted it wont connect to my bike - hence looking for help not involving it.

 

[Chicknstripn]

With an 03 you're going to need ECMspy or ecmdriod.
Not much diagnostics you can for TPS issues without one of the above programs.
You can do one of two things without diagnostic software:
1) throw parts at it
2) find a dealer

Both of the above will be expensive. Good luck!

 

[rchuff]

Look, the only way that you are going to fix it is like John (aka) Lunatic and Carlos (aka) Chickn have said. You are going to need ECMspy or ecmdroid a tool well worth the money. There is a free download on this site if you search for ecmspy download. If you are not willing to listen then best of luck to you.

 

[Cooter]

You will need the tools to diagnose your problem, or you're just guessing.

ECMDroid is by far much easier to use for diagnosis purposes. Check out Buelltooth.com for a free download. Once you get it you can use live stat to check all the sensors before you start replacing them randomly. Good luck.

 

[Chicknstripn]

After rereading your orginal post it seems the culprits could be the TPS(as you have already guessed) and the engine temp sensor.
You haven't mentioned the bike having a CEL(check engine light)?
If it is throwing codes there's a way to read those codes without software. You'd have to research this since I've never done it.
Also, when you replace your TPS you're going to need to reset the TPS. You'll definitely need software for that.

 

[CrashBurnFly]

I have ECMspy but it will not work on either of my Sony laptops - the USB serial converter drivers FDTI clash with Sony's Intel USB drivers and no connection. many hours spent trying to get a workaround - but no luck. Sadly vendors wont rewrite drivers so that I can access my Buell ECU... and I dont want to buy a new laptop.
Hence asking if the experience of the forum could take the symptoms compare it to previous problems raised/solved and point to the most likely cause.
The Check Engine Light only comes on as usual as start and then goes out.
I will buy a bluetooth dongle so I can try ECM and ECMDroid - is this the one the forum would advise getting?
http://www.buelltooth.com/store/p2/Buelltooth_ECM_Interface.html

 

[Chicknstripn]

Do you have an android phone or tablet?
If not I'm sure you can pick one up pretty cheap.
Heck, having a dealer perform a TPS reset will cost you between 70-90 bucks. That right there will get a nice tablet that will allow to perform a TPS reset yourself and all sorts of other good stuff.
If you have an android phone just download ecmdriod. It's free.

And yes that looks like the dongle you'll need to connect to ECMdroid.
BTW are you sure the diagnostic plug on your bike is working? Check it for voltage before you proceed.

 

[CrashBurnFly]

I have an Android phone.
Whilst checking that the diagnostic plug was working (it is) I tried jumping Pin 1 & 2 and see what codes flashed.
All I had was rapid flashing so no codes - does ECMspy etc access other data or will it also find no error codes?

 

[CrashBurnFly]

Just to finish this thread and tell you what I did to solve this ...

The Check Engine light did not indicate any trouble codes (it comes on when you start the bike and then goes out - if an error is stored then the light comes back on). To double check I used the manual error code approach of connecting the two right-hand ECM diagnostic cable connection pins to see if the ECM had any stored errors and it had none. Next I connected a Buell diagnostic tool - ECMDroid to the bikes ECM via a special bluetooth dongle. This also showed the bike had no error codes. I had perversely hoped for an error code or two to point me at the problem - but nothing. I wondered if the fuelling was out and too lean or rich but the bike didn't smell rich (petrolly smell) and the ECMDroid software allows you to check the fuelling via Adaptive Fuel Value, or AFV settings and my one was showing 104% so in the green. The throttle position sensor seemed to be working as expected and showing 5.3° so within range (5.2 - 5.6) and the bike ticked over from cold at 950-1050 rpm.
The workshop manual is very comprehensive with test data and flow charts to test out all of the main elements and sensors. All the sensors seem to be fed 5v and they return a voltage from this that indicates their state - so as an example the Throttle Position Sensor sends back 0.5-1.5 volts at idle (closed throttle) and 3.9-4.9 volts at wide open throttle. The ECM monitors these voltages to run the bike -if any of them were faulty then the ECM should detect it and hold it as a trouble/error code. As the ECM had recorded no such faults, it seems as if all of the sensors etc were working fine. I could manually check the voltage of every sensor to double check, but that would take quite a while and if the ECM did not detect a fault then probably they are OK.
Without any error codes to give me a clue - the main help I had in finding the solution was the symptoms. These seemed to point at multiple sensors/things being faulty that got worse after the hot bike had been parked for 10+ mins - and no error codes to give any clues - confusing!
I went to the pub to ponder. It seemed unlikely that the bike had developed two separate faults - much more likely to be just one causing a variety of issues. I have ridden Ducati's for 30 years and also 100 years old Triumph bikes - so plenty of experience of odd behaviour to gain experience from! The 2nd symptom only happened after the bike had been left hot for 10 plus mins so my reasoning was that this faulty item had to be remote from the engine and somewhere covered where heat soaking from the engine would build up but not in free air as it then took 10 mins of riding for it to cool down. The TPS and coil were possibles but I think they would have heated up with the engine and after another pint, the under seat area seemed the ideal place where the heating up/cooling down scenario would match the symptoms as would the coming together of all of the sensor wires at the ECM. The next morning I had a good look at these wires and they all looked fine externally but I noticed that the grey ECM plug was not fully seated - just a tad/mm out from being fully pressed down - could that be it? I pulled out both connectors and used electrical cleaning spray and had a look at the insides - all looked fine so connected it all back up and made sure grey connector was fully seated.
Bike fired up perfectly with no need for any throttle. I have now ridden it five times and all is back to being perfect - problems seemingly solved. No idea how this connector could be loose as it hasn't been apart since new. The bike is a very early XB - made October 2002 so maybe it takes 15 years for vibes and bumps to work the connector a tiny fraction apart.
Thought this worth posting to help out anyone else with misbehaving Buell and maybe worth checking your connectors to see if they are working themselves apart.

 

[Chicknstripn]

Talk about a novel!
Glad you found the cause of your issues!
Here's the cliff notes, and where most of us direct anyone with erratic running issues, CHECK ALL GROUNDS AND CONNECTORS!
Insure grounds are clean and tight.
Insure connectors are same with no signs of over heating.